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Cash is not really relevant to this particular discussion. When the power is out one cannot pay with cash either - because the cash register is offline.

by lpapez 1y ago

kortilla 1y ago
A cash register is not required to make cash transactions
- Mr_Minderbinder 1y ago
  Why would an employee tracking device be necessary to make transactions? It is just people without a cash position performing mental gymnastics in an attempt to justify it, by trying to bring it down to the level of electronic payment methods they convince themselves that, in a similar event, they would be no better off with cash, when in fact they almost certainly would. A merchant who refuses cash on account of a disabled cash register, under these circumstances, is not a serious one, since to do so would be to refuse all business. Those merchants who are so encumbered by scale and bureaucracy that they would be completely incapacitated should be circumvented.
pmlnr 1y ago
Let me introduce you to the physical receipt block which is made of paper and can be filled up with a pen, and what is still often used in, for example, Christmas markets.
- seydor 1y ago
  Many countries require receipts to be sent to the tax services instantly. In many cases a long enough power cut (days) would render all transactions illegal (And in many cases you cannot legally pay large amounts of money in cash, it has to be electronic)
  - jjice 1y ago
    I'm sure they'd make an exception.
  - inglor_cz 1y ago
    Force majeure should apply.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    How can this even be a legal requirement?
    - cbg0 1y ago
      In some countries whenever you print a receipt, a copy is also sent to the IRS equivalent of that country. Obviously there are events where that can't happen due to technical reasons outside of the store's control.
      - mytailorisrich 1y ago
        Which countries? And, again, I doubt that this is the full picture because there are many cases where people simply don't "print a receipt" perfectly legally...
        thyristan 1y ago
        Germany for example mandates printing a receipt. The receipt must be stored in a certified storage inside the cash register and is signed cryptographically, including the hash of the previous receipt such that there is a hash-chain of printed receipts. Therefore each printed receipt that the customer takes home (and maybe at some point hands in to the tax office for some reason) can be used to check the integrity of the cash register storage and all prior receipts in the chain. https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/neue-regelungen-zur-technischen-sicherheitseinrichtung-tse/ https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/neue-rege... https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/kassenbon-pflicht/ https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/kassenbon... Many other EU countries have similar regulations, and in some cases had them for a long time.
- Thaxll 1y ago
  How do you open the cash register for change when power is out?
  - edhelas 1y ago
    With the physical key, everything doesn't need to be electronic you know
  - nickjj 1y ago
    > How do you open the cash register for change when power is out? I've only seen a few but I believe they have springs on the inside and roll on little wheels similar to how desk draws roll. Most can be opened with a key to trigger that event.
- xlii 1y ago
  Depending on the country it’s not that easy. Maybe something changed in the meantime but where I am those blocks are prefilled-numbered and stock needs to be controlled. It’s not like you can (could?) keep a block „just in case” and thus many shopkeepers wouldn’t even bother in case of outages. Depending where you live a good old trust can be a currency. Humans are great when it comes to adaptation, I bet I could just write on paper name, CC number and leave it on a paper for shopkeeper and everything would resolve just fine..
- xp84 1y ago
  I hear you, and in my second job 20+ years ago we were still trained (in a cursory fashion) to use physical charge slips in case of a POS system network outage, a full power outage would strain my imagination for ability to transact business at the majority of stores other than small mom and pop operations, and tbh even if such an outage had happened to me in 2005, I would not expect my department store to remain open and conduct sales. Most retail workers are GenZ and struggle to understand what this would even look like because they’ve never conducted any transaction without POS computers (for looking up prices, for tallying them, for figuring tax and total, and computing change), so even if a dusty manual in the stockroom technically spells out a method of ringing sales using nothing but pen and paper and maybe a solar calculator, I would be surprised if any of the clerks working any given day would have the initiative to initiate an offline protocol. Most likely the store manager would usher customers out, lock up the store, keep the staff for 30 minutes to see if it came back on, and then go home.
michaelscott 1y ago
Store owners just make out paper receipts in this case, like businesses used to do back in the day
bradly 1y ago
The gas station I worked at used a paper bag when offline. Good, not great.
- BozeWolf 1y ago
  How did the pumps work when there was no power?
  - helf 1y ago
    He said "offline" not "no power". Also, fuel station can probably successfully run it's own backup power;)
    - kube-system 1y ago
      They don’t, at least not here in the US. In areas with power outages, gasoline stations do not operate.
  - guappa 1y ago
    They used to have a crank!
    - mistrial9 1y ago
      please be more respectful to the manager of that establishment!
  - bradly 1y ago
    No power is different than no internet, so that was different. We were a 24/7 store (7-Eleven) and sometimes we would close if it was a prolonged power outage. No one has 100% uptime, not even 24 hour gas stations.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
InDubioProRubio 1y ago
Cashier scribbles furiously to add to cash register later
throw0101a 1y ago
> When the power is out one cannot pay with cash either - because the cash register is offline. Cash registers can be connected to small UPSes to ride through smaller outages. You wouldn't need a larger battery if all you want to do is ride through a few-hour outage, or even a whole business day (8-12 hours?).

Cash is not really relevant to this particular discussion. When the power is out one cannot pay with cash either - because the cash register is offline.

by lpapez 1y ago

Cash is not really relevant to this particular discussion. When the power is out one cannot pay with cash either - because the cash register is offline.

kortilla 1y ago

A cash register is not required to make cash transactions

Mr_Minderbinder 1y ago
Why would an employee tracking device be necessary to make transactions? It is just people without a cash position performing mental gymnastics in an attempt to justify it, by trying to bring it down to the level of electronic payment methods they convince themselves that, in a similar event, they would be no better off with cash, when in fact they almost certainly would. A merchant who refuses cash on account of a disabled cash register, under these circumstances, is not a serious one, since to do so would be to refuse all business. Those merchants who are so encumbered by scale and bureaucracy that they would be completely incapacitated should be circumvented.

pmlnr 1y ago

Let me introduce you to the physical receipt block which is made of paper and can be filled up with a pen, and what is still often used in, for example, Christmas markets.

seydor 1y ago
Many countries require receipts to be sent to the tax services instantly. In many cases a long enough power cut (days) would render all transactions illegal (And in many cases you cannot legally pay large amounts of money in cash, it has to be electronic)
- jjice 1y ago
  I'm sure they'd make an exception.
- inglor_cz 1y ago
  Force majeure should apply.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  How can this even be a legal requirement?
  - cbg0 1y ago
    In some countries whenever you print a receipt, a copy is also sent to the IRS equivalent of that country. Obviously there are events where that can't happen due to technical reasons outside of the store's control.
    - mytailorisrich 1y ago
      Which countries? And, again, I doubt that this is the full picture because there are many cases where people simply don't "print a receipt" perfectly legally...
      - thyristan 1y ago
        Germany for example mandates printing a receipt. The receipt must be stored in a certified storage inside the cash register and is signed cryptographically, including the hash of the previous receipt such that there is a hash-chain of printed receipts. Therefore each printed receipt that the customer takes home (and maybe at some point hands in to the tax office for some reason) can be used to check the integrity of the cash register storage and all prior receipts in the chain. https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/neue-regelungen-zur-technischen-sicherheitseinrichtung-tse/ https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/neue-rege... https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/kassenbon-pflicht/ https://www.lexware.de/wissen/buchhaltung-finanzen/kassenbon... Many other EU countries have similar regulations, and in some cases had them for a long time.
Thaxll 1y ago
How do you open the cash register for change when power is out?
- edhelas 1y ago
  With the physical key, everything doesn't need to be electronic you know
- nickjj 1y ago
  > How do you open the cash register for change when power is out? I've only seen a few but I believe they have springs on the inside and roll on little wheels similar to how desk draws roll. Most can be opened with a key to trigger that event.
xlii 1y ago
Depending on the country it’s not that easy. Maybe something changed in the meantime but where I am those blocks are prefilled-numbered and stock needs to be controlled. It’s not like you can (could?) keep a block „just in case” and thus many shopkeepers wouldn’t even bother in case of outages. Depending where you live a good old trust can be a currency. Humans are great when it comes to adaptation, I bet I could just write on paper name, CC number and leave it on a paper for shopkeeper and everything would resolve just fine..
xp84 1y ago
I hear you, and in my second job 20+ years ago we were still trained (in a cursory fashion) to use physical charge slips in case of a POS system network outage, a full power outage would strain my imagination for ability to transact business at the majority of stores other than small mom and pop operations, and tbh even if such an outage had happened to me in 2005, I would not expect my department store to remain open and conduct sales. Most retail workers are GenZ and struggle to understand what this would even look like because they’ve never conducted any transaction without POS computers (for looking up prices, for tallying them, for figuring tax and total, and computing change), so even if a dusty manual in the stockroom technically spells out a method of ringing sales using nothing but pen and paper and maybe a solar calculator, I would be surprised if any of the clerks working any given day would have the initiative to initiate an offline protocol. Most likely the store manager would usher customers out, lock up the store, keep the staff for 30 minutes to see if it came back on, and then go home.

michaelscott 1y ago

Store owners just make out paper receipts in this case, like businesses used to do back in the day

bradly 1y ago

The gas station I worked at used a paper bag when offline. Good, not great.

BozeWolf 1y ago
How did the pumps work when there was no power?
- helf 1y ago
  He said "offline" not "no power". Also, fuel station can probably successfully run it's own backup power;)
  - kube-system 1y ago
    They don’t, at least not here in the US. In areas with power outages, gasoline stations do not operate.
- guappa 1y ago
  They used to have a crank!
  - mistrial9 1y ago
    please be more respectful to the manager of that establishment!
- bradly 1y ago
  No power is different than no internet, so that was different. We were a 24/7 store (7-Eleven) and sometimes we would close if it was a prolonged power outage. No one has 100% uptime, not even 24 hour gas stations.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

InDubioProRubio 1y ago

Cashier scribbles furiously to add to cash register later

throw0101a 1y ago

> When the power is out one cannot pay with cash either - because the cash register is offline. Cash registers can be connected to small UPSes to ride through smaller outages. You wouldn't need a larger battery if all you want to do is ride through a few-hour outage, or even a whole business day (8-12 hours?).