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This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police sur

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

dabeeeenster 1y ago
You're using a highly regulated piece of equipment that kills over 40,000 people in America annually. What do you feel is the appropriate balance? How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on?
- marketneutral 1y ago
  I think the point is that we should aim to solve it without surveillance / sacrificing rights. So in this case, increasing the fines / jail time is at least one alternative.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - nelox 1y ago
    Seriously? It is logically no different from drink driving. No one has the right to drive. You need to qualify, be tested, licensed and competent. If you break the law repeatedly, then you should be restricted from driving by any means necessary to protect you from yourself and others.
  - _Algernon_ 1y ago
    Not sure in how incarceration can be considered a smaller sacrifice of rights than vehicle tracking.
    - pc86 1y ago
      Not sure how incarcerating people who are guilty of a crime is unconscionable but monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever.
      - shlant 1y ago
        > monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever. Is that what the bill proposes? everyone's vehicle is now monitored all the time?
        pc86 1y ago
        It's a much bigger leap to go from "punish people for speeding" to "physically prevent their car from going past a certain speed" than it is to go from "prevent this car from going past a certain speed" to "prevent all cars from going past a certain speed."
        shlant 1y ago
        your slippery slope argument is not very convincing. What do you suggest be done (that isn't already) about people who regularly speed, putting themselves and those around them in danger?
        pc86 1y ago
        Judges already have the power to permanently revoke people's license to drive, the problem is they don't. It's a very simple problem with a very simple solution. If someone proves multiple times they won't follow the rules of the road, revoke their ability to legally drive. Most states go to jail time on the first or second offense of driving without a valid license. This whole argument smacks of "let's not make things too hard on these people willfully violating our laws over and over and over again."
  - pclmulqdq 1y ago
    Raise the speed limits on major highways to match the speed of traffic, and strict enforcement will have a lot more support.
    - paddy_m 1y ago
      I'm as anti-car/pro urbanist as they come. I would totally support this. Speeding on highways doesn't bother me and is relatively safe. Speeding in cities endangers pedestrians and sees no enforcement. Stop signs aren't even obeyed any more (they require a complete stop, in case you forgot).
- hermannj314 1y ago
  I think my concern is that we are being lied to. My opinion is irrelevent as I do not live in Virginia and am not a lawmaker, but I would want this to be tied to a vehicle telematic privacy bill that restricted how cars use telemetry data and gives consumers rights to control what is logged and who sees it and who it can be sold to. Until we own the data our cars generate, I don't want active speed and acceleration constraint software for "chronic criminals" because inevitably it will be mandatory on all cars and remotely controllable by law enforcement.
  - pc86 1y ago
    The problem is even if you got the legislature to pass that privacy bill (they never would, at least not without 1,000 exemptions that every large company would qualify for multiple times over), it would just get repealed a year or two later with little fanfare. The only answer is to make this kind of thing illegal at the level of the state constitution and/or federal case law, at least until we bring back tarring and feathering government officials who violate their oaths.
- JasserInicide 1y ago
  How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on? Are you serious? I can choose to leave my mobile phone home if I want to. I can't do that with my car.
jampekka 1y ago
You could do it without any surveillance. Just have a feature in the car where the ECU will limit the speed when e.g. programmed via the CAN-bus. Such speed limits are quite common. E.g. mopeds in Finland have been (mechanically) speed limited for decades. Electric bikes are also limited to not supply force above 25km/h (IIRC).
- hermannj314 1y ago
  I am fully in support of making cars or mopeds or all travel safer. The US government and state governments are openly hostile to our residents and currently implementing massive mechanisms to track and control our population including our immigrant communities, women who need access to birth control, LGBTQ communities . The government wanting a system that requires GPS and speed information to allow law enforcement to remotely control the movement of undesirable activities is the obvious goal here.
  - digbybk 1y ago
    Cars are the leading cause of death of children in the US. More than cancer. Maybe you're right, I don't know, but it's not the "obvious goal".
    - jampekka 1y ago
      Cars are also indirectly a huge cause of early death due to health problems caused by sedentary lifestyle.
      - digbybk 1y ago
        I agree with you but addressing that wouldn't be a goal of this particular policy.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
i_love_retros 1y ago
People who regularly endanger the lives of others SHOULD be tracked. Want to live freely? Then don't be an asshole.
- techdmn 1y ago
  Or be in the U.S. on a green card or student visa, apparently. But those are just people experiencing oppression. We're all being tracked.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
kube-system 1y ago
> It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Ignition interlocks have existed for many years and didn't do this.
os2warpman 1y ago
There is already massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Every motor vehicle has a serial number. Every motor vehicle is registered and must display an identification label on its front and rear. Every non-antique motor vehicle must be inspected annually for safety. Every motor vehicle must be operated by a licensed individual. Those individuals are assigned identification numbers and their photographs are stored in a database. Information regarding both the motor vehicle and its driver is shared among states, with private entities, and with the federal government. All motor vehicles must have insurance. The status of insurance coverage is shared with the state and other states. A network of automated license plate readers exists in the state, with police vehicles and various municipalities across the state deploying both fixed and mobile automated license plate readers. Speed and red light cameras have been deployed to municipalities across the state. Radar detectors are banned. Anyone who has driven through Virginia knows that they have one of the, if not the, strictest speeding enforcement programs in the entire country. > The Old Dominion has the second-highest citation rate for speeding in the nation — 67 percent higher than the national average — where many drivers are caught in the state’s notorious speed traps on interstate highways near Richmond. https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/states-most-heavily-enforced-traffic-laws/ https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/states-most-heav... The door was opened decades ago. This is about speeding. On a personal level, I do one day a week as a volunteer EMT. Most of the time it's great. Taking old folks with UTIs and abnormal labs to the ER, treating injuries at high school football games, taking vitals and transporting folks with dizziness, racing to a restaurant and epi'ing someone who had an allergic reaction. Very rewarding, supremely fulfilling. Then the drunks and the speeders show up and you go home wishing you could feed the legs of people who drive recklessly into meat grinders, up to their thighs.

dabeeeenster 1y ago

You're using a highly regulated piece of equipment that kills over 40,000 people in America annually. What do you feel is the appropriate balance? How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on?

marketneutral 1y ago
I think the point is that we should aim to solve it without surveillance / sacrificing rights. So in this case, increasing the fines / jail time is at least one alternative.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- nelox 1y ago
  Seriously? It is logically no different from drink driving. No one has the right to drive. You need to qualify, be tested, licensed and competent. If you break the law repeatedly, then you should be restricted from driving by any means necessary to protect you from yourself and others.
- _Algernon_ 1y ago
  Not sure in how incarceration can be considered a smaller sacrifice of rights than vehicle tracking.
  - pc86 1y ago
    Not sure how incarcerating people who are guilty of a crime is unconscionable but monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever.
    - shlant 1y ago
      > monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever. Is that what the bill proposes? everyone's vehicle is now monitored all the time?
      - pc86 1y ago
        It's a much bigger leap to go from "punish people for speeding" to "physically prevent their car from going past a certain speed" than it is to go from "prevent this car from going past a certain speed" to "prevent all cars from going past a certain speed."
        shlant 1y ago
        your slippery slope argument is not very convincing. What do you suggest be done (that isn't already) about people who regularly speed, putting themselves and those around them in danger?
        pc86 1y ago
        Judges already have the power to permanently revoke people's license to drive, the problem is they don't. It's a very simple problem with a very simple solution. If someone proves multiple times they won't follow the rules of the road, revoke their ability to legally drive. Most states go to jail time on the first or second offense of driving without a valid license. This whole argument smacks of "let's not make things too hard on these people willfully violating our laws over and over and over again."
- pclmulqdq 1y ago
  Raise the speed limits on major highways to match the speed of traffic, and strict enforcement will have a lot more support.
  - paddy_m 1y ago
    I'm as anti-car/pro urbanist as they come. I would totally support this. Speeding on highways doesn't bother me and is relatively safe. Speeding in cities endangers pedestrians and sees no enforcement. Stop signs aren't even obeyed any more (they require a complete stop, in case you forgot).
hermannj314 1y ago
I think my concern is that we are being lied to. My opinion is irrelevent as I do not live in Virginia and am not a lawmaker, but I would want this to be tied to a vehicle telematic privacy bill that restricted how cars use telemetry data and gives consumers rights to control what is logged and who sees it and who it can be sold to. Until we own the data our cars generate, I don't want active speed and acceleration constraint software for "chronic criminals" because inevitably it will be mandatory on all cars and remotely controllable by law enforcement.
- pc86 1y ago
  The problem is even if you got the legislature to pass that privacy bill (they never would, at least not without 1,000 exemptions that every large company would qualify for multiple times over), it would just get repealed a year or two later with little fanfare. The only answer is to make this kind of thing illegal at the level of the state constitution and/or federal case law, at least until we bring back tarring and feathering government officials who violate their oaths.
JasserInicide 1y ago
How is this different to driving around with a mobile phone on? Are you serious? I can choose to leave my mobile phone home if I want to. I can't do that with my car.

jampekka 1y ago

You could do it without any surveillance. Just have a feature in the car where the ECU will limit the speed when e.g. programmed via the CAN-bus. Such speed limits are quite common. E.g. mopeds in Finland have been (mechanically) speed limited for decades. Electric bikes are also limited to not supply force above 25km/h (IIRC).

hermannj314 1y ago
I am fully in support of making cars or mopeds or all travel safer. The US government and state governments are openly hostile to our residents and currently implementing massive mechanisms to track and control our population including our immigrant communities, women who need access to birth control, LGBTQ communities . The government wanting a system that requires GPS and speed information to allow law enforcement to remotely control the movement of undesirable activities is the obvious goal here.
- digbybk 1y ago
  Cars are the leading cause of death of children in the US. More than cancer. Maybe you're right, I don't know, but it's not the "obvious goal".
  - jampekka 1y ago
    Cars are also indirectly a huge cause of early death due to health problems caused by sedentary lifestyle.
    - digbybk 1y ago
      I agree with you but addressing that wouldn't be a goal of this particular policy.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

i_love_retros 1y ago

People who regularly endanger the lives of others SHOULD be tracked. Want to live freely? Then don't be an asshole.

techdmn 1y ago
Or be in the U.S. on a green card or student visa, apparently. But those are just people experiencing oppression. We're all being tracked.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

kube-system 1y ago

> It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Ignition interlocks have existed for many years and didn't do this.

os2warpman 1y ago

There is already massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Every motor vehicle has a serial number. Every motor vehicle is registered and must display an identification label on its front and rear. Every non-antique motor vehicle must be inspected annually for safety. Every motor vehicle must be operated by a licensed individual. Those individuals are assigned identification numbers and their photographs are stored in a database. Information regarding both the motor vehicle and its driver is shared among states, with private entities, and with the federal government. All motor vehicles must have insurance. The status of insurance coverage is shared with the state and other states. A network of automated license plate readers exists in the state, with police vehicles and various municipalities across the state deploying both fixed and mobile automated license plate readers. Speed and red light cameras have been deployed to municipalities across the state. Radar detectors are banned. Anyone who has driven through Virginia knows that they have one of the, if not the, strictest speeding enforcement programs in the entire country. > The Old Dominion has the second-highest citation rate for speeding in the nation — 67 percent higher than the national average — where many drivers are caught in the state’s notorious speed traps on interstate highways near Richmond. https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/states-most-heavily-enforced-traffic-laws/ https://insurify.com/car-insurance/insights/states-most-heav... The door was opened decades ago. This is about speeding. On a personal level, I do one day a week as a volunteer EMT. Most of the time it's great. Taking old folks with UTIs and abnormal labs to the ER, treating injuries at high school football games, taking vitals and transporting folks with dizziness, racing to a restaurant and epi'ing someone who had an allergic reaction. Very rewarding, supremely fulfilling. Then the drunks and the speeders show up and you go home wishing you could feed the legs of people who drive recklessly into meat grinders, up to their thighs.