6 ms·

What beef does russia have against spain and portugal?

by deeThrow94 1y ago

atemerev 1y ago
Parts of EU.
- deeThrow94 1y ago
  Ok...? Is there like more to this narrative or are we supposed to buy that russia just hates all of europe for being europe now? Whatever happened to the "rational actor" canard?
  - Orygin 1y ago
    Europe is helping Ukraine it its defense against Russia. Russia has sabotaged a lot of things in multiple EU countries, including Spain. It's not far fetched to imagine Russia being the root cause of this, or being implicated in some way. Even if they are not, they 100% are watching this closely and learn how they can disrupt power throughout Europe.
    - deeThrow94 1y ago
      How would this do anything but weaken the Russian position? The EU is clearly otherwise willing to watch Ukraine fall.
      - croes 1y ago
        Did Russia say they did it? No. So you can weaken your opponent without getting the backlash.
        suracii 1y ago
        [flagged]
      - Orygin 1y ago
        I'm not saying Russia did it, just that they could be the cause of this. Weakening Europe is in their interest, and they already have blatantly done smaller scale sabotage. It wouldn't weaken their position, as you said, Europe is not really interested in taking Russia seriously atm. Sabotages, killings, politician corruption and public disinformation have been common tactics for them for a decade now. Now that Russia's #1 enemy is under their control, I'm not sure they are afraid to take on Europe more directly.
      - sofixa 1y ago
        > The EU is clearly otherwise willing to watch Ukraine fall. All the money, humanitarian aid, weapons, intelligence, training and geopolitical backing beg to differ.
  - preisschild 1y ago
    Russia is an imperialist, terrorist state and wants to see all of Europe in its "sphere of influence" They have already assassinated People in Spain last year https://www.politico.eu/article/maxim-kuzminov-russia-ukraine-defector-murder-fsb-spain-helicopter/ https://www.politico.eu/article/maxim-kuzminov-russia-ukrain...
    - suracii 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - benterix 1y ago
    Well, it's been for quite a while now. Acts of micro- (or mini-) aggression like fires, explosives in commercial shipping services, broken sea cables just became daily news. The only positive aspect of this is after the root cause is found, the grid will become more resilient in the long term (but these kinds of changes typically take long time).
    - deeThrow94 1y ago
      Again, how would these actions do anything but weaken Russia's position given the EU's apparent willingness to stay on the sidelines? Wouldn't ukraine benefit the most from the perception that Russia is at war with the EU?
      - rsynnott 1y ago
        > given the EU's apparent willingness to stay on the sidelines? ... Wait, how are you defining that? Much of the EU is about as close as it is possible to be to being at war with Russia without actually sending in troops.
      - atemerev 1y ago
        For the record, I don't think that this particular event is a Russian act of sabotage. But Russia is an aggressive authoritarian state that was already caught for (smaller) acts of sabotage in EU, some of them quite dangerous. Why they are doing this? Who knows, war in Ukraine was not rational too. Perhaps some people want to be evil just for the sake of being evil. As a Russian emigrant, I long stopped trying to rationalize Kremlin decisions. Why authoritarians are authoritarians? Who knows. Mad with power or something.
        hkpack 1y ago
        The strategy is not even a secret. Russia sees itself as a major influence of the Europe. You cannot control stable governments, so you destabilise them with various tools for prolonged periods of time and then you end up with a country which is much easier to influence.
      - 1y ago
  - somelamer567 1y ago
    Spain underinvests in its military. Russian mafias also control much of the costas. I would surmise that the Russians think that Spain and Portugal are cowed, and want to keep them intimidated and prevent them from increasing their aid to Ukraine.
    - suracii 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - yafinder 1y ago
    Reading this thread from Russia feels surreal.
    - sph 1y ago
      Good place as any to ask: do you need a VPN to access the “Western” internet? Is the block on the Russian side, or are Western websites blocking Russian IPs?
      - atemerev 1y ago
        The block is on the Russian side (in most cases), but not all Western sites are blocked (Hacker News is working). Most of Russians know how to use VPNs, though it is extremely inconvenient.
      - selivanovp 1y ago
        No in most cases. Meta products are banned, twitter, discord and youtube (this one mostly works in reality), but pretty much everything else is unaffected. Some Western side companies banned Russia by IP's like Intel, but in general, my list of websites to tunnel through a VPN is rather short, like a dozen and mostly to unblock youtube as meta and twitter are cancer anyway.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      Why?
    - Orygin 1y ago
      Why is that? We're not saying it's definitely Russia, but exploring the possibility they could be behind this. After the multiple sabotages, killings, corruption, as well as the invasion of a neighbor country, we have some reasons to think Russia is a bad state actor.
      - suracii 1y ago
        [flagged]
    - 1y ago
  - Calwestjobs 1y ago
    Russian establishment DOES hate western civilization, that is not "narrative" that is fact told by them in live tv to your face FOR LAST 70 YEARS. That is not "narrative". Western style of life is not only EU but also USA. I do not know how people can even doubt this lol. If they wanted western life in russia, then establishment will make changes to have it there, no ? Russia is NOT democracy, it is tyranny, autocracy. Again it is not narrative it is what they do there lol
    - tryauuum 1y ago
      Yeah yeah they hate it so much they send their children to live in Europe and buy properties there. Hating the west is only an ideology given to plebs
      - Calwestjobs 1y ago
        They hate west because by western standards they will be in jail for all LOOTING of russias natural resources and killing and abusing their own citizens. West is punishing people who do bad things. Russian oligarchy kids did nothing wrong, presumably. contrary to west, in russia you get beaten by police because your children in west posted something on Xtwitter... Alexei Navalny, Boris Nemtsov, Boris Berezovsky, Sergei Magnitsky, Stanislav Markelov, Anastasia Baburova, Natalia Estemirova, Anna Politkovskaya, yuri Shchekochikhin, Vasily Melnikov , Vladislav Avayev , Sergey Protosenya, Yevgeniy Palant, Yuri Voronov, Ravil Maganov, Vladimir Sungorkin, Anatoly Gerashchenko, Vadim Boyko, Vladimir Makei, Grigory Kochenov, Vladimir Bidenov + Pavel Antov, and thousands of others. most spectacular was - Pyotr Kucherenko where two men holded him and third put shopping bag on his head, and noone saw nothing in whole plane... except three photos were taking of incident...
      - dijit 1y ago
        I don't buy this argument, it's the pinnacle of selection bias. `any != all` after all. Your argument is essentially; because some Russian people send some of their children to be educated or buy some property in the west (as a portfolio of how many?) that the argument that the state of Russia dislikes the EU holds no water. To me, it's hardly evidence of anything, just like how some people in the UK fetishise Russia- yet the UK government is actively hostile and condemns without hesitation- Russias actions towards Ukraine.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    The EU is the main provider of financial support to Ukraine, the country which Russia is currently attempting to invade, along with one of the major provider of weapons and training.
    - deeThrow94 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - somelamer567 1y ago
    Some more-unhinged ultranationalist elements of Russian societies loathe Western culture and what they see as 'decadent' Western values on their culture. This is not new. Xenophobia and hate of the Other has a long and sordid history in Russia. Moreover, they are unable to just live-and-let-live and actively go out of their way to make other peoples lives miserable. This is due to pervasive zero-sum thinking in Russian strategic thinking. They are fixated on the idea that in order for Russia to 'win', others must suffer and lose.
  - hsuduebc2 1y ago
    I often have the same thoughts as you because, based on what I’ve seen, their actions aren’t strictly rational. For example, the damage to undersea cables will just be repaired, and it only end up angering everyone. Sometimes they also start local fires. I don’t really understand it either. I do not really think that this needed to be a russians work tho. Spain and Portugal are really kinda far and it would be massively idiotic move even for them.
    - suracii 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - brohee 1y ago
    Some people close to power in Russia (Dugin) actually seem to believe Russia natural range is from Lisbon to Vladivostok. "Putin channels ultranationalist discourse, such as the Izborsk Club and the neo-fascist Alexander Dugin, in calling for quasi-religious rebirth of Russian dominance, an agenda that seeks to swallow “Little Russia” into a renewed Russian empire that stretches from “Lisbon to Vladivostok,” a phrase popularized by Dugin and repeated by Putin." https://brill.com/view/journals/joah/4/1-2/article-p126_10.xml https://brill.com/view/journals/joah/4/1-2/article-p126_10.x...
    - selivanovp 1y ago
      Dugin's views and influence is greatly exaggerated in Western media. >renewed Russian empire that stretches from “Lisbon to Vladivostok,” a phrase popularized by Dugin and repeated by Putin." This is a direct lie. Putin has never said this. And one of the greatest lies that is being spread about Putin that he intends to conquer Europe and recreate Russian Empire.
  - StefanBatory 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - suracii 1y ago
      [flagged]
suraci 1y ago
[flagged]
croes 1y ago
https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/news/Paginas/2025/20250224-summit-support-ukraine.aspx https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/news/Paginas...

What beef does russia have against spain and portugal?

atemerev 1y ago

Parts of EU.

deeThrow94 1y ago
Ok...? Is there like more to this narrative or are we supposed to buy that russia just hates all of europe for being europe now? Whatever happened to the "rational actor" canard?
- Orygin 1y ago
  Europe is helping Ukraine it its defense against Russia. Russia has sabotaged a lot of things in multiple EU countries, including Spain. It's not far fetched to imagine Russia being the root cause of this, or being implicated in some way. Even if they are not, they 100% are watching this closely and learn how they can disrupt power throughout Europe.
  - deeThrow94 1y ago
    How would this do anything but weaken the Russian position? The EU is clearly otherwise willing to watch Ukraine fall.
    - croes 1y ago
      Did Russia say they did it? No. So you can weaken your opponent without getting the backlash.
      - suracii 1y ago
        [flagged]
    - Orygin 1y ago
      I'm not saying Russia did it, just that they could be the cause of this. Weakening Europe is in their interest, and they already have blatantly done smaller scale sabotage. It wouldn't weaken their position, as you said, Europe is not really interested in taking Russia seriously atm. Sabotages, killings, politician corruption and public disinformation have been common tactics for them for a decade now. Now that Russia's #1 enemy is under their control, I'm not sure they are afraid to take on Europe more directly.
    - sofixa 1y ago
      > The EU is clearly otherwise willing to watch Ukraine fall. All the money, humanitarian aid, weapons, intelligence, training and geopolitical backing beg to differ.
- preisschild 1y ago
  Russia is an imperialist, terrorist state and wants to see all of Europe in its "sphere of influence" They have already assassinated People in Spain last year https://www.politico.eu/article/maxim-kuzminov-russia-ukraine-defector-murder-fsb-spain-helicopter/ https://www.politico.eu/article/maxim-kuzminov-russia-ukrain...
  - suracii 1y ago
    [flagged]
- benterix 1y ago
  Well, it's been for quite a while now. Acts of micro- (or mini-) aggression like fires, explosives in commercial shipping services, broken sea cables just became daily news. The only positive aspect of this is after the root cause is found, the grid will become more resilient in the long term (but these kinds of changes typically take long time).
  - deeThrow94 1y ago
    Again, how would these actions do anything but weaken Russia's position given the EU's apparent willingness to stay on the sidelines? Wouldn't ukraine benefit the most from the perception that Russia is at war with the EU?
    - rsynnott 1y ago
      > given the EU's apparent willingness to stay on the sidelines? ... Wait, how are you defining that? Much of the EU is about as close as it is possible to be to being at war with Russia without actually sending in troops.
    - atemerev 1y ago
      For the record, I don't think that this particular event is a Russian act of sabotage. But Russia is an aggressive authoritarian state that was already caught for (smaller) acts of sabotage in EU, some of them quite dangerous. Why they are doing this? Who knows, war in Ukraine was not rational too. Perhaps some people want to be evil just for the sake of being evil. As a Russian emigrant, I long stopped trying to rationalize Kremlin decisions. Why authoritarians are authoritarians? Who knows. Mad with power or something.
      - hkpack 1y ago
        The strategy is not even a secret. Russia sees itself as a major influence of the Europe. You cannot control stable governments, so you destabilise them with various tools for prolonged periods of time and then you end up with a country which is much easier to influence.
    - 1y ago
- somelamer567 1y ago
  Spain underinvests in its military. Russian mafias also control much of the costas. I would surmise that the Russians think that Spain and Portugal are cowed, and want to keep them intimidated and prevent them from increasing their aid to Ukraine.
  - suracii 1y ago
    [flagged]
- yafinder 1y ago
  Reading this thread from Russia feels surreal.
  - sph 1y ago
    Good place as any to ask: do you need a VPN to access the “Western” internet? Is the block on the Russian side, or are Western websites blocking Russian IPs?
    - atemerev 1y ago
      The block is on the Russian side (in most cases), but not all Western sites are blocked (Hacker News is working). Most of Russians know how to use VPNs, though it is extremely inconvenient.
    - selivanovp 1y ago
      No in most cases. Meta products are banned, twitter, discord and youtube (this one mostly works in reality), but pretty much everything else is unaffected. Some Western side companies banned Russia by IP's like Intel, but in general, my list of websites to tunnel through a VPN is rather short, like a dozen and mostly to unblock youtube as meta and twitter are cancer anyway.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    Why?
  - Orygin 1y ago
    Why is that? We're not saying it's definitely Russia, but exploring the possibility they could be behind this. After the multiple sabotages, killings, corruption, as well as the invasion of a neighbor country, we have some reasons to think Russia is a bad state actor.
    - suracii 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - 1y ago
- Calwestjobs 1y ago
  Russian establishment DOES hate western civilization, that is not "narrative" that is fact told by them in live tv to your face FOR LAST 70 YEARS. That is not "narrative". Western style of life is not only EU but also USA. I do not know how people can even doubt this lol. If they wanted western life in russia, then establishment will make changes to have it there, no ? Russia is NOT democracy, it is tyranny, autocracy. Again it is not narrative it is what they do there lol
  - tryauuum 1y ago
    Yeah yeah they hate it so much they send their children to live in Europe and buy properties there. Hating the west is only an ideology given to plebs
    - Calwestjobs 1y ago
      They hate west because by western standards they will be in jail for all LOOTING of russias natural resources and killing and abusing their own citizens. West is punishing people who do bad things. Russian oligarchy kids did nothing wrong, presumably. contrary to west, in russia you get beaten by police because your children in west posted something on Xtwitter... Alexei Navalny, Boris Nemtsov, Boris Berezovsky, Sergei Magnitsky, Stanislav Markelov, Anastasia Baburova, Natalia Estemirova, Anna Politkovskaya, yuri Shchekochikhin, Vasily Melnikov , Vladislav Avayev , Sergey Protosenya, Yevgeniy Palant, Yuri Voronov, Ravil Maganov, Vladimir Sungorkin, Anatoly Gerashchenko, Vadim Boyko, Vladimir Makei, Grigory Kochenov, Vladimir Bidenov + Pavel Antov, and thousands of others. most spectacular was - Pyotr Kucherenko where two men holded him and third put shopping bag on his head, and noone saw nothing in whole plane... except three photos were taking of incident...
    - dijit 1y ago
      I don't buy this argument, it's the pinnacle of selection bias. `any != all` after all. Your argument is essentially; because some Russian people send some of their children to be educated or buy some property in the west (as a portfolio of how many?) that the argument that the state of Russia dislikes the EU holds no water. To me, it's hardly evidence of anything, just like how some people in the UK fetishise Russia- yet the UK government is actively hostile and condemns without hesitation- Russias actions towards Ukraine.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  The EU is the main provider of financial support to Ukraine, the country which Russia is currently attempting to invade, along with one of the major provider of weapons and training.
  - deeThrow94 1y ago
    [flagged]
- somelamer567 1y ago
  Some more-unhinged ultranationalist elements of Russian societies loathe Western culture and what they see as 'decadent' Western values on their culture. This is not new. Xenophobia and hate of the Other has a long and sordid history in Russia. Moreover, they are unable to just live-and-let-live and actively go out of their way to make other peoples lives miserable. This is due to pervasive zero-sum thinking in Russian strategic thinking. They are fixated on the idea that in order for Russia to 'win', others must suffer and lose.
- hsuduebc2 1y ago
  I often have the same thoughts as you because, based on what I’ve seen, their actions aren’t strictly rational. For example, the damage to undersea cables will just be repaired, and it only end up angering everyone. Sometimes they also start local fires. I don’t really understand it either. I do not really think that this needed to be a russians work tho. Spain and Portugal are really kinda far and it would be massively idiotic move even for them.
  - suracii 1y ago
    [flagged]
- brohee 1y ago
  Some people close to power in Russia (Dugin) actually seem to believe Russia natural range is from Lisbon to Vladivostok. "Putin channels ultranationalist discourse, such as the Izborsk Club and the neo-fascist Alexander Dugin, in calling for quasi-religious rebirth of Russian dominance, an agenda that seeks to swallow “Little Russia” into a renewed Russian empire that stretches from “Lisbon to Vladivostok,” a phrase popularized by Dugin and repeated by Putin." https://brill.com/view/journals/joah/4/1-2/article-p126_10.xml https://brill.com/view/journals/joah/4/1-2/article-p126_10.x...
  - selivanovp 1y ago
    Dugin's views and influence is greatly exaggerated in Western media. >renewed Russian empire that stretches from “Lisbon to Vladivostok,” a phrase popularized by Dugin and repeated by Putin." This is a direct lie. Putin has never said this. And one of the greatest lies that is being spread about Putin that he intends to conquer Europe and recreate Russian Empire.
- StefanBatory 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - suracii 1y ago
    [flagged]

suraci 1y ago

[flagged]

croes 1y ago

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/news/Paginas/2025/20250224-summit-support-ukraine.aspx https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/presidente/news/Paginas...