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Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle

• stepbeek 2y ago
  I had my own company previously and I found it hard to detangle that commercial mindset from hobby coding. I’m employed now and find it much easier to code purely for fun. If I played guitar professionally then I’d probably find it hard to not think about new pieces in the context of a gig-worthy repertoire.
  • p0nce 2y ago
    This is real, anytime I code I'm obsessed about RoI
• makeitdouble 2y ago
  This is a reaction that I had for a time, until realizing that outside of just "some people are different", there is also the wider protestant work ethic putting work at the center of their life, and assigning a moral value to productive work. I'm describing it in too vague terms to be appropriate, and most people might be thinking it in that way, but I genuinely think there's a part of it in a lot of the "I did this paid service as a weekend project" mentality.
• cess11 2y ago
  Many people think that they just have to write some code and execute it publicly and they'll somehow be provided for. That can sully recreational coding since it makes it hard to see that it will most definitely not be directly profitable without a lot of non-coding labour. Doing business is demanding, you've got compliance and documentation and code needs to be intelligible to other people and finances and marketing and planning and customer support and all that domain knowledge that allows you to catch more than one or two paying customers because your solution works in most of a sector of society and so on. With this in mind you'll have an easy time seeing that your for fun, recreational project is not a business and that you can't think of it as one until users are starting to force you to by being so many or offering money for additional services.
• ramon156 2y ago
  Because having your own product is something that on paper sounds extremely rewarding. If you do it well, the maintenance might be less than the work you put in your actual job. Some people want to break out of the cycle, and you can't really blame them for it when the economy is hurting working people (ofcourse excluding that writing software is relative to other jobs a cushion job)
  • zeroc8 2y ago
    It's not a cushion job. At least not when you are working on a huge codebase together with lots of other developers.
    • sethammons 2y ago
      What other jobs have you had? I have been a photo lab assistant, a sign maker apprentice, a graphic designer, an insurance agent, a financial advisor, a construction worker and manual laborer, an inner-city math teacher, a software developer turned manager turn developer, now at the staff level. Software is the most cush job I have had. More money for less work. Better perks. Less stress overall. Constantly learning, yes. Often frustrating, yes. But having financial resources beyond what the other jobs could provide is a thing. Other jobs I could leave at work, sure, but others I couldn't. I would never go back to being a public high school teacher; that shit was the suck. So was selling stocks. Software is a dream in comparison.
      • codebastard 2y ago
        That is from the viewpoint of the top 10% earners if you look at the european market or small / local business than you are looking at people doing the job of multiple departments and getting blamed if something does not work or for their salary if everything works. And the salary is most of the time lower than anyone from the HR or Marketing department whose job if you are unlucky you also have to do because the tools they use are too complicated for them. And if take the freelancer / remote work market into consideration everyone wants to pass all the work to the lowest bidder and some of them get lucky with skilled workers whose salary may be in the median considering their location after substracting the share of the middleman.
• Arisaka1 2y ago
  I will preface this by saying that, I decided to stop pursuing a job as a software developer because my 2 years of work experience mean nothing in the job market. Now that I ended up finding a job as a waiter (of all things) I finally enjoy learning new things again. Before, I would get chronically stressed researching the job market, gathering keywords from job openings, consuming Udemy courses at 2x speed, using AI to plan the project and scaffold it. I was writing projects to save my life, because my finances are just that bad. Surrendering and giving up the pursuit of work made all this mental load go away, and ironically made me progress in a personal skill level faster than anything else. I can now learn deeply. I can tinker with code to my heart's content. I can see all the warnings. I can research why this and that happen, without feeling like I have to "sigma grindset" every second. Perhaps when the storm is gone with the whole "AI is gonna take our jobs" and the market demanding every keyword match, and I feel more confident in myself I'll try to get professional again. Or not. All I know is that I love programming.
  • yapyap 2y ago
    In all seriousness, being able to pinpoint what is causing the possible stress / load and making choices to get rid of that is pretty amazing, props! Though as for the job market, I’m sure the AI hype will blow over but I don’t think it’ll remain silent for long, there’ll be another nonsensical trend within reach. Tech needs to keep innovating to keep investors happy and keep investing. That’s why it’s going this AI bubble route. Cause they don’t have any groundbreaking innovations at the moment but want to keep the investors they got when the web was newer and was worthy of the real hype.
    • john_the_writer 2y ago
      blockchained api for AI with anti-mushroom (non-fungible) recursion.
    • leansensei 2y ago
      This is The Incredible Story of Deft... https://leanpub.com/deft https://leanpub.com/deft
    • 2y ago
• mrkeen 2y ago
  Sure. I used to enjoy playing the Sims until I had that gut realisation that I was trying to get them to grind out better lives, when I should just spend that time doing it for myself. I also bought Shenzhen I/O, because the idea of being able to program in a game seems fun. But after reading more, I didn't end up playing it because it would involve too much study of how the in-game computers work, and I'd get much more long-term satisfaction from studying real assembly languages etc.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• ZaoLahma 2y ago
  When I was younger, early in my career, I coded to learn more about what I was doing at work. Pure career progression. The older I get, the less I care about career progression and the more I allow myself to just use code to explore thoughts or ideas.
• Clubber 2y ago
  >Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? I absolutely do. Money and power is a great motivator. I don't feel bad about any of it. I took my shot and continue to do so. >What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it? It was not. I made some good side money. I always joke that I program to feed my computer habit. The benefit of it is you actually code like you are making a product, and there is usually a big skill difference between someone coding for fun and someone coding to make an actual sellable product; it's the 80/20 rule. That last 80% is what separates the good from the great. Like Jobs said, "Real artists ship."
  • 59nadir 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • Clubber 1y ago
      You've made a whole lot of assumptions in that reply, all from 10 sentences. Maybe ask some questions next time instead of making assumptions that fit your preconceived notions. Your intuition is a bit off.
      • 59nadir 1y ago
        I think I was about as charitable as your post deserved, and I stated my assumptions clearly. You can either address them (and the bigger point) or choose not to.
        • Clubber 1y ago
          Nah, not worth the energy.
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      > I can teach someone who knows how things work how to glue libraries together when/if we do need it, but I can't teach someone who glues libraries together how to make their own things; it's simply not worth the time or effort because it's effectively like starting from scratch and I may as well start with a complete junior in that case. I just want to point out that this goes beyond an argument explaining how hobby projects can be useful and enters the territory of personal attack. I presume you mean that whatever they made is substandard in some way ("[gluing] libraries together" is nonsense criticism; everything in software is someone's abstraction) but I don't see why you would think that.
• nicbou 2y ago
  Coding is a small but very fun part of my business. I code for fun because I can afford to, but most people need to put bread on the table, so they must remain competitive.
• onion2k 2y ago
  What a miserable existence that must be. This ignores the fact that people are motivated by different things. If you're someone who thrives on the intrinsic 'do this for the love and joy of it' motivation then you should absolutely just write code for the fun of it. But not everyone is like that. Some people need an extrinsic motivator to drive them to do things - that's usually money, or praise, or a punishment for failing. There is nothing wrong with either approach. Neither is better.
  • spicyusername 2y ago
    I mean... one is definitely better...
    • 32i5ens 1y ago
      [flagged]
  • 59nadir 1y ago
    While it's not wrong to be extrinsically motivated (it's not morally wrong, or a value judgment), it's definitely worse and more fickle (it will produce worse results in most cases). Intrinsic motivation is much more likely to lead to long-term growth even in the face of adversity and in general be more resistant to changing circumstances.
  • retropragma 1y ago
    Important to note that it's not a dichotomy as long as you're not an "extremist" of either side. Build for yourself and a big market. Take pride in competing at a high level. If you view "hustling" as an 'all work, no play' experience, you're engaged in absolutist thinking.
• hombre_fatal 2y ago
  Seems reasonable that you would struggle with the opportunity cost of your time when you're writing software for fun since you could also be working towards a greater goal of launching something that might make money. Software is relatively unique because of the multiplying effects of software (without banking on a moonshot) unlike, say, carpentry or strumming a guitar. So the opportunity cost can be even higher. You should always be cognizant of opportunity costs because they're always in play. And I can see that getting away from people, especially if you haven't already achieved your financial life goals. I feel similar when I try to play a game in my 30s. It feels like a huge waste of time compared to something that would advance me towards my aspirations. But I think that's just part of being an adult. Just be aware of the trade you're making.
  • mibsl 2y ago
    Being always cognizant of opportunity costs also has an opportunity cost in terms of mental health and life satisfaction.
    • hombre_fatal 2y ago
      Depends on what you do with that information, doesn't it? I think you want to embody both awareness and acceptance. And probably make a deliberate choice in the matter instead of just drifting.
    • StefanBatory 1y ago
      I ended up on SSRI because of that, personally.
  • alkonaut 1y ago
    I still don't get it. What I want to do is make software as a hobby that can never be sold. If I start writing some boring SaaS software instead then I'm losing my opportunity to do what I like? I think it must basically be a funamental question of goals/aspirations to begin with. I never had an aspiration to be e.g. wealthy, retire early, or make very senior positions within my company. Is that the difference?
• analog31 1y ago
  Some of us do. The hobby may consist of simulating the professional experience, but to a limited extent and on our own terms. For instance in my own case, I play an instrument -- the double bass -- and I perform sporadically. When I practice at home, I'm aware of the qualifications and competency of a professional bassist, I measure myself against those standards, and try to keep improving. This doesn't detract from the pleasure of playing, at all. If anything, it gives me some structure and motivation. And I still don't mind noodling for a while when I need a distraction that doesn't involve a screen. But I only count the money that I make, because I have to report it. ;-)
• betenoire 1y ago
  I do both of those, it's a constant battle in my own head. I'm always reminding myself that it's ok to make music just for my own enjoyment, and that don't need a potential monetary angle for some hobby. I'm not justifying this mindset, which preceded LinkedIn. I don't like it.