6 ms·

As someone who has interviewed candidates for a FANG company in the distant past I can't say that degrees matter, but I can say that people I interviewed with d

As someone who has interviewed candidates for a FANG company in the distant past I can't say that degrees matter, but I can say that people I interviewed with degrees generally did better. There's a hidden bias in that this is only people who got through recruiters and recruiters are their own filter. Strong referrals usually guaranteed a phone screens. I think previous experience at a major competitor in the same tier or a degree from a top CS school were also meaningful, but I don't know how else they filtered. There is a non trivial relationship between colleges and businesses, so you are likely to do many problems in college that are not terribly different from the interview questions. Additionally all of your peers have been interviewed/do interviews/do referrals and that does matter. College students generally did not do incredibly well on practical problems, so I would expect a non college candidate to do really well on them. Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. If your degree isn't from a top 10-20 CS school it's probably not worth it if you have experience. If you can't make friends while doing the courses, then I don't think it's worth it. Going to a good college is much much much much more than a few lectures, some book reading, and some assignments. It is face to face time with world class experts, it's a culture, it's social, it's exploratory. You can potentially work on bleeding edge research or be introduced to things you never knew existed. It sounds like your idea of what college is, is that it's a technical education rather than a liberal education. If that's true I think your perception of college is wrong. There are some situations where a college degree really matters. If you want to apply for a work visa in a foreign country, a degree from a good college can potentially get your application a rubber stamp or lack of one could completely restrict you from it.

platevoltage 1y ago
I understand the concept of "liberal education". Perhaps if I lived in a country that values having an educated populous, I would go that route. The truth of the matter is that I am a 41 year old adult in the USA. It's not in the cards for me.
murderfs 1y ago
> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. You're basically just using it as a proxy for general intelligence, the _average_ physics major's IQ is around 130.
- platevoltage 1y ago
  Yep. IMO that's the way ANY degree is looked at (aside from Medical, Law, etc.. you know the drill). You want a lower level administrative job? You better have a degree so we know that you're not stupid. Now you get to pay off your loans with 20 bucks an hour.
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    I worked at a fortune 50 company that hired engineering graduates with masters degrees as contractors to break down cardboard boxes and manage stockrooms. The degree was just a fancy filter if could read and write. If they worked out, they would be eventually hired direct into less mindless tasks. Not all of the contractors were worth retaining.
- hayst4ck 1y ago
  I don't know about that. I feel like if big tech moved away from IQ test like questions like the MS/FB of old then there was a reason.
  - riehwvfbk 1y ago
    And that reason was legal precedent: it's illegal to administer an IQ test as a condition of employment. So they administer a disguised IQ test in the form of Leetcode questions instead.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - 1y ago
Quarrel 1y ago
> I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability Some CS programs have moved away from heavy maths requirements over the last 2 decades, outside a few maths-heavy specific CS courses. Physics degrees still mean you have very decent maths, but CS degrees are not necessarily as strong a signifier of it. I suspect that is the difference, particularly if you are actually working on tricky programming tasks.
- Suppafly 1y ago
  >Physics degrees still mean you have very decent maths, but CS degrees are not necessarily as strong a signifier of it. That and they necessarily have to learn a lot of CS just to do their own degree work. It's like wondering why cross country runners perform well at other sports too, their sport incorporates the 'hard' part of most sports, the running and endurance aspects.
caseyy 1y ago
> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. Hah, I also noticed that. For some reason, ex-army programmers really excel in their junior years (or sometimes even just months), too. Do you think it's the attitude towards problem-solving?
- hayst4ck 1y ago
  I really don't know. This is spitballing, but I think maybe physicists are clever analysts while CS people are prone to "clever" implementations. I remember thinking "oh, you understand, like actually understand" to them in particular, so maybe it's that they spend more time understanding before doing.
- StefanBatory 1y ago
  "ex-army programmers really excel in their junior years" My feeling is that they're just built different, military, especially in US will either teach you or make you disciplined (not something I'd say about my country, you'll learn how to get hazed and drink). If you have a task, well, you better solve it quick, no distractions.
brightball 1y ago
> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. I’ve also found this to be true. And math degrees.
yibg 1y ago
> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. In my experience those with math degrees too. Maybe the structured methods of analysis and problem solving.
- aeonik 1y ago
  In my experience, math majors can do some pretty incredible acrobatics (in a good way), but their documentation, systemic performance awareness, and overall design sense often lag behind. These are things they usually pick up outside of the degree, and they have to break some bad habits learned during it (e.g., single-character-variable soup). I agree with a sibling comment that physicists often seem to make the best coders, for some reason. My hypothesis: it's because physicists are rigorously trained to model real-world systems directly. What would be considered an "advanced" modeling problem to most would be an intro problem to a physics student. Math is absolutely related, but I think the secret ingredient is "mathematical maturity" — the ability to fluidly jump between layers of abstraction. Mathematicians are good at this too, but physicists go a step further: they are trained to ground their abstractions in concrete physical phenomena. Mathematicians ground systems in axioms, sure. But physicists have to tether models back to reality — to processes and measurements — which turns out to be exactly the skill set that makes for good programmers and system designers. Huge generalization, obviously. But personally, I've noticed my own programming ability increases the more physics I learn. Physics gives you a systematic framework to reason about complexity — and physicists get the luxury of a "relatively simple" universe compared to fields like chemistry or biology. They're working with rich systems described by just a few tightly-coupled parameters. And the kicker: a lot of those systems are 100% repeatable, every time. That kind of structure — and the habit of respecting it — is priceless for engineering.
epolanski 1y ago
> but I can say that people I interviewed with degrees generally did better I can also confirm that. It shouldn't come as a surprise that people with a formal degree are on average better prepared to interviews. But sadly, it has absolutely no correlation with work performance. Zero, none. In fact, I can say that the overwhelming majority of non graduates did far better on the job: more motivated, stays longer, hungrier to learn and prove themselves.
thorin 1y ago
As below, Physics and Maths degrees tend to have high entry requirements, large amounts of hands on (classroom or labs) hours, lots of highly focussed students. I observed this while studying Electronic Engineering, which I would say is similar but more practical and with lower entrance requirements. I'm not sure where computer science would fit into this as it's a newer discipline with less stringent core requirements. Other IT courses may be less rigorous and include people that are less focussed on their education relatively. As above I would say that the physics students I know are often the ones going furthest in their careers either in research, computing (know a few at google), consulting e.g. PWC etc
Workaccount2 1y ago
Physics degrees are the low-key blanket STEM degree. You can find people with physics degrees working in pretty much any technical field.
superconduct123 1y ago
That's funny, one of the best programmers I've ever know had a physics degree I think those type of people just have really good analytical thinking
- porridgeraisin 1y ago
  I'm a grad student and I help grade exam papers of mostly entry level ML related subjects. And boy, the aerospace and physics department folks are ahead of the curve by a significant amount. I guess four years of strong mathematics does that to you.

platevoltage 1y ago

I understand the concept of "liberal education". Perhaps if I lived in a country that values having an educated populous, I would go that route. The truth of the matter is that I am a 41 year old adult in the USA. It's not in the cards for me.

murderfs 1y ago

> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. You're basically just using it as a proxy for general intelligence, the _average_ physics major's IQ is around 130.

platevoltage 1y ago
Yep. IMO that's the way ANY degree is looked at (aside from Medical, Law, etc.. you know the drill). You want a lower level administrative job? You better have a degree so we know that you're not stupid. Now you get to pay off your loans with 20 bucks an hour.
- s1artibartfast 1y ago
  I worked at a fortune 50 company that hired engineering graduates with masters degrees as contractors to break down cardboard boxes and manage stockrooms. The degree was just a fancy filter if could read and write. If they worked out, they would be eventually hired direct into less mindless tasks. Not all of the contractors were worth retaining.
hayst4ck 1y ago
I don't know about that. I feel like if big tech moved away from IQ test like questions like the MS/FB of old then there was a reason.
- riehwvfbk 1y ago
  And that reason was legal precedent: it's illegal to administer an IQ test as a condition of employment. So they administer a disguised IQ test in the form of Leetcode questions instead.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - 1y ago

Quarrel 1y ago

> I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability Some CS programs have moved away from heavy maths requirements over the last 2 decades, outside a few maths-heavy specific CS courses. Physics degrees still mean you have very decent maths, but CS degrees are not necessarily as strong a signifier of it. I suspect that is the difference, particularly if you are actually working on tricky programming tasks.

Suppafly 1y ago
>Physics degrees still mean you have very decent maths, but CS degrees are not necessarily as strong a signifier of it. That and they necessarily have to learn a lot of CS just to do their own degree work. It's like wondering why cross country runners perform well at other sports too, their sport incorporates the 'hard' part of most sports, the running and endurance aspects.

caseyy 1y ago

> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. Hah, I also noticed that. For some reason, ex-army programmers really excel in their junior years (or sometimes even just months), too. Do you think it's the attitude towards problem-solving?

hayst4ck 1y ago
I really don't know. This is spitballing, but I think maybe physicists are clever analysts while CS people are prone to "clever" implementations. I remember thinking "oh, you understand, like actually understand" to them in particular, so maybe it's that they spend more time understanding before doing.
StefanBatory 1y ago
"ex-army programmers really excel in their junior years" My feeling is that they're just built different, military, especially in US will either teach you or make you disciplined (not something I'd say about my country, you'll learn how to get hazed and drink). If you have a task, well, you better solve it quick, no distractions.

brightball 1y ago

yibg 1y ago

> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice. In my experience those with math degrees too. Maybe the structured methods of analysis and problem solving.

aeonik 1y ago
In my experience, math majors can do some pretty incredible acrobatics (in a good way), but their documentation, systemic performance awareness, and overall design sense often lag behind. These are things they usually pick up outside of the degree, and they have to break some bad habits learned during it (e.g., single-character-variable soup). I agree with a sibling comment that physicists often seem to make the best coders, for some reason. My hypothesis: it's because physicists are rigorously trained to model real-world systems directly. What would be considered an "advanced" modeling problem to most would be an intro problem to a physics student. Math is absolutely related, but I think the secret ingredient is "mathematical maturity" — the ability to fluidly jump between layers of abstraction. Mathematicians are good at this too, but physicists go a step further: they are trained to ground their abstractions in concrete physical phenomena. Mathematicians ground systems in axioms, sure. But physicists have to tether models back to reality — to processes and measurements — which turns out to be exactly the skill set that makes for good programmers and system designers. Huge generalization, obviously. But personally, I've noticed my own programming ability increases the more physics I learn. Physics gives you a systematic framework to reason about complexity — and physicists get the luxury of a "relatively simple" universe compared to fields like chemistry or biology. They're working with rich systems described by just a few tightly-coupled parameters. And the kicker: a lot of those systems are 100% repeatable, every time. That kind of structure — and the habit of respecting it — is priceless for engineering.

epolanski 1y ago

> but I can say that people I interviewed with degrees generally did better I can also confirm that. It shouldn't come as a surprise that people with a formal degree are on average better prepared to interviews. But sadly, it has absolutely no correlation with work performance. Zero, none. In fact, I can say that the overwhelming majority of non graduates did far better on the job: more motivated, stays longer, hungrier to learn and prove themselves.

thorin 1y ago

As below, Physics and Maths degrees tend to have high entry requirements, large amounts of hands on (classroom or labs) hours, lots of highly focussed students. I observed this while studying Electronic Engineering, which I would say is similar but more practical and with lower entrance requirements. I'm not sure where computer science would fit into this as it's a newer discipline with less stringent core requirements. Other IT courses may be less rigorous and include people that are less focussed on their education relatively. As above I would say that the physics students I know are often the ones going furthest in their careers either in research, computing (know a few at google), consulting e.g. PWC etc

Workaccount2 1y ago

Physics degrees are the low-key blanket STEM degree. You can find people with physics degrees working in pretty much any technical field.

superconduct123 1y ago

That's funny, one of the best programmers I've ever know had a physics degree I think those type of people just have really good analytical thinking

porridgeraisin 1y ago
I'm a grad student and I help grade exam papers of mostly entry level ML related subjects. And boy, the aerospace and physics department folks are ahead of the curve by a significant amount. I guess four years of strong mathematics does that to you.