4 ms·

Fixing diseases and abnormalities in humans is empathy and compassion.

throw16180339 2y ago
Are you referring to the Trump government's treatment of trans people? RFK views autistics as undesirables, so it's absurd to believe that he'll be any nicer to us. > “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,” What makes more sense is that he's collecting our personal information for imprisonment and execution.
- rayiner 2y ago
  > RFK views autistics as undesirables >> “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,” This is true of people with severe autism. I know someone whose autism is severe enough she'll probably never be able to live independently. Doesn't everyone view that medical condition--the condition, not the person--as undesirable? Doesn't everyone view being healthy as better than being unhealthy? I have ADHD. I'd rather not have ADHD. I take a pill every day to control it. My kid has it too. He'll have to take a pill every day for the rest of his life. I'd love to avoid that outcome. Avoiding disease is a good thing!
  - throw16180339 2y ago
    If he had made the same statement about Bangladeshi-Americans and was collecting their personal information, how would you feel about it?
    - rayiner 2y ago
      Your comparison makes no sense. Bangladeshi Americans, as a group, are normal and healthy. They don't suffer from a medical condition that could be cured. But to use a better example, south asians have a significantly higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. Almost everyone in my family has it. It would be great to cure that or figure out how to avoid that. I'd be fine with the government collecting data about that, so long as there was an opt-out.
      - throw16180339 2y ago
        > Your comparison makes no sense. Bangladeshi Americans, as a group, are normal and healthy. They don't suffer from a medical condition that could be cured. I was trying to give you a sense of why I interpret his comments as a threat. He's described all of us as if we're a burden when I've been supporting myself for decades. Some autistics would want a cure, but others feel that their perspective is equally as valid as neurotypicals. They don't see themselves as sick and in need of a cure. > But to use a better example, south asians have a significantly higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. Almost everyone in my family has it. It would be great to cure that or figure out how to avoid that. I'd be fine with the government collecting data about that, so long as there was an opt-out. My main impairments are face blindness and a severe difficulty with reading facial expressions - I'm in the bottom 5% of the population. I would happily take a cure for either of these if it was offered. If it's a more general personality change, then I'm not interested. I'm comfortable with who I am. There isn't an opt-out for me and there's a long history of eugenics in this country, that's why I'm concerned about this.
        rayiner 2y ago
        And I'm saying you shouldn't compare people of different ethnicities to people with medical conditions. I'm normal where I'm from. My skin color is an adaptation to the tropical climate I'm from. It's not a medical condition that's maladaptive to normal functioning, or something that ideally we could cure. Your use of the term "eugenics" is nonsensically broad. Society should seek to cure diseases and maladaptive medical conditions. That's not "eugenics."
        whattheheckheck 2y ago
        [flagged]
        kelipso 2y ago
        [flagged]
        2y ago
MattGrommes 2y ago
The problem is not fixing diseases. The problem is what is defined as a disease or abnormality. The problem is people who are clearly choosing abnormalities based on politics, power grabs, and anti-science rhetoric.
- rayiner 2y ago
  Science and medicine is what has defined autism as a disease or abnormality. Science and medicine are telling us that the rates of these diseases are growing dramatically, for decades now. RFK isn’t the one who made autism concern happen. My three year old’s teacher asked us to get him tested with the county for autism. It’s a very common thing parents are dealing with these days. I’d argue that what you’re saying is exactly backward. The medical community has defined a lot of normal behavior as autism. Now, I agree RFK’s views on what’s causing autism are anti-scientific, and I doubt he’ll be able to figure out what’s causing it. But RFK has a platform because the medical community has diagnosed all these kids as autistic but doesn’t have an explanation for what’s causing it. So looks like RFK fill the void.
  - ActorNightly 2y ago
    >Science and medicine is what has defined autism as a disease or abnormality. Not really. DSM is not really scientific, its more statistical. You could make arguments that autism is actually evolutionary, as people who are on the spectrum in certain ways are often better in select areas than neuro typical people.
  - sizzle 2y ago
    What were the symptoms your 3 yr old were exhibiting to be asked to screen them? Was the teacher right to say something or are they handing out these diagnoses like candy?
    - rayiner 2y ago
      He was a little speech delayed, has somewhat below age level fine motor function, can sight read a lot of words, and has some odd behaviors, like taking to his hand pretending its Toodles from Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. The county said he was borderline. There is some gaming of the system going on for sure. They said they were ready to diagnose him with something and give him an IEP if he were going to public school where he could get extra services, but since we’re planning to send him to private K-12 they recommended against it. I’ll be honest, my first thought was that it was white women (everyone in this story besides me) overreacting. In our circle of friends, several of the kids are diagnosed with something on the spectrum. By contrast I don’t know a single person from my immigrant group whose child has a diagnosis. So I was skeptical. But ultimately, I figured that the teachers see dozens of these kids every year and I trust their judgment.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
boroboro4 2y ago
Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it. We're moving same direction, mostly by people wishing for a strong arm, and being consumed by hate. And it's definitely not empathy and compassion in play here.
- rayiner 2y ago
  > Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it. They were wrong. Does that mean that human developmental abnormalities don't exist and we shouldn't be looking for ways to prevent them? Of course not. I can't believe you're making me defend RFK, but characterizing this as being motivated by "hate" is completely absurd. RFK is a kook, but he's a kook motivated by compassion and empathy. His entire career has been driven by compassion for people affected by environmental poisons. And the people in his camp are crunchy granola parents who can't analyze statistical data, who are grasping at straws trying to find out why their kid has a developmental abnormality that science doesn't have a ready explanation for.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    He's a kook who claimed that COVID-19 was ethnically targeted to spare Ashkenazim. That's not a claim motivated by compassion and empathy.

Are you referring to the Trump government's treatment of trans people? RFK views autistics as undesirables, so it's absurd to believe that he'll be any nicer to us. > “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,” What makes more sense is that he's collecting our personal information for imprisonment and execution.

rayiner 2y ago
> RFK views autistics as undesirables >> “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,” This is true of people with severe autism. I know someone whose autism is severe enough she'll probably never be able to live independently. Doesn't everyone view that medical condition--the condition, not the person--as undesirable? Doesn't everyone view being healthy as better than being unhealthy? I have ADHD. I'd rather not have ADHD. I take a pill every day to control it. My kid has it too. He'll have to take a pill every day for the rest of his life. I'd love to avoid that outcome. Avoiding disease is a good thing!
- throw16180339 2y ago
  If he had made the same statement about Bangladeshi-Americans and was collecting their personal information, how would you feel about it?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Your comparison makes no sense. Bangladeshi Americans, as a group, are normal and healthy. They don't suffer from a medical condition that could be cured. But to use a better example, south asians have a significantly higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. Almost everyone in my family has it. It would be great to cure that or figure out how to avoid that. I'd be fine with the government collecting data about that, so long as there was an opt-out.
    - throw16180339 2y ago
      > Your comparison makes no sense. Bangladeshi Americans, as a group, are normal and healthy. They don't suffer from a medical condition that could be cured. I was trying to give you a sense of why I interpret his comments as a threat. He's described all of us as if we're a burden when I've been supporting myself for decades. Some autistics would want a cure, but others feel that their perspective is equally as valid as neurotypicals. They don't see themselves as sick and in need of a cure. > But to use a better example, south asians have a significantly higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. Almost everyone in my family has it. It would be great to cure that or figure out how to avoid that. I'd be fine with the government collecting data about that, so long as there was an opt-out. My main impairments are face blindness and a severe difficulty with reading facial expressions - I'm in the bottom 5% of the population. I would happily take a cure for either of these if it was offered. If it's a more general personality change, then I'm not interested. I'm comfortable with who I am. There isn't an opt-out for me and there's a long history of eugenics in this country, that's why I'm concerned about this.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        And I'm saying you shouldn't compare people of different ethnicities to people with medical conditions. I'm normal where I'm from. My skin color is an adaptation to the tropical climate I'm from. It's not a medical condition that's maladaptive to normal functioning, or something that ideally we could cure. Your use of the term "eugenics" is nonsensically broad. Society should seek to cure diseases and maladaptive medical conditions. That's not "eugenics."
        whattheheckheck 2y ago
        [flagged]
        kelipso 2y ago
        [flagged]
        2y ago

MattGrommes 2y ago

The problem is not fixing diseases. The problem is what is defined as a disease or abnormality. The problem is people who are clearly choosing abnormalities based on politics, power grabs, and anti-science rhetoric.

rayiner 2y ago
Science and medicine is what has defined autism as a disease or abnormality. Science and medicine are telling us that the rates of these diseases are growing dramatically, for decades now. RFK isn’t the one who made autism concern happen. My three year old’s teacher asked us to get him tested with the county for autism. It’s a very common thing parents are dealing with these days. I’d argue that what you’re saying is exactly backward. The medical community has defined a lot of normal behavior as autism. Now, I agree RFK’s views on what’s causing autism are anti-scientific, and I doubt he’ll be able to figure out what’s causing it. But RFK has a platform because the medical community has diagnosed all these kids as autistic but doesn’t have an explanation for what’s causing it. So looks like RFK fill the void.
- ActorNightly 2y ago
  >Science and medicine is what has defined autism as a disease or abnormality. Not really. DSM is not really scientific, its more statistical. You could make arguments that autism is actually evolutionary, as people who are on the spectrum in certain ways are often better in select areas than neuro typical people.
- sizzle 2y ago
  What were the symptoms your 3 yr old were exhibiting to be asked to screen them? Was the teacher right to say something or are they handing out these diagnoses like candy?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    He was a little speech delayed, has somewhat below age level fine motor function, can sight read a lot of words, and has some odd behaviors, like taking to his hand pretending its Toodles from Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. The county said he was borderline. There is some gaming of the system going on for sure. They said they were ready to diagnose him with something and give him an IEP if he were going to public school where he could get extra services, but since we’re planning to send him to private K-12 they recommended against it. I’ll be honest, my first thought was that it was white women (everyone in this story besides me) overreacting. In our circle of friends, several of the kids are diagnosed with something on the spectrum. By contrast I don’t know a single person from my immigrant group whose child has a diagnosis. So I was skeptical. But ultimately, I figured that the teachers see dozens of these kids every year and I trust their judgment.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

boroboro4 2y ago

Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it. We're moving same direction, mostly by people wishing for a strong arm, and being consumed by hate. And it's definitely not empathy and compassion in play here.

rayiner 2y ago
> Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it. They were wrong. Does that mean that human developmental abnormalities don't exist and we shouldn't be looking for ways to prevent them? Of course not. I can't believe you're making me defend RFK, but characterizing this as being motivated by "hate" is completely absurd. RFK is a kook, but he's a kook motivated by compassion and empathy. His entire career has been driven by compassion for people affected by environmental poisons. And the people in his camp are crunchy granola parents who can't analyze statistical data, who are grasping at straws trying to find out why their kid has a developmental abnormality that science doesn't have a ready explanation for.
- tptacek 2y ago
  He's a kook who claimed that COVID-19 was ethnically targeted to spare Ashkenazim. That's not a claim motivated by compassion and empathy.