3 ms·

Internet in a Box DOES NOT WORK I don't know how many more times this needs to be proven. You do not understand data, you do not understand the reality around

Internet in a Box DOES NOT WORK I don't know how many more times this needs to be proven. You do not understand data, you do not understand the reality around you, you do not understand 80:20 style engineering rules, you can't look at previous implementations of the Internet in a Box and see it didn't work. Worse, you now live in a Starlink era where you can give them a real "Internet in a Box" and there is no solution people can just roll out. Talking a proper Linux setup, real hacker and nerd stuff, but because it's not Data Hording 101 no one will tackle it. Internet in a Box is a great example of why Western foreign aid is failing and China is moving in. The West no longer builds infrastructure for the poor (like a Linux build) and feeds them wishy washy stuff. Facebook does more for the poor in this area.

nchmy 1y ago
Could you elaborate on/point us towards resources about why it does not work?
- aaron695 1y ago
  It's been around since 2012 and the best Wikipedia has - "explored using these boxes in the Dominican Republic for three months." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet-in-a-Box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet-in-a-Box Where is a follow up study 3 years later? Are there any follow up studies [1]? (I have said in past comments the medical version might work, it failed in the Dominican Republic [1]) One follow up study - [1] https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/2023-01/Internet%20In%20a%20Box.pdf https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/2023-01/In... which is not real positive. Why does it not work? An idea to think about, physical encyclopedias and university textbooks have been around forever and accessible. I've worked in schools with 1000's on one ADSL trying to use proxies to cache. I've volunteered for a few years in country on mobile apps for use in very low PPI villages without internet. I'm not coming at this with zero experience. It's impossible to discuss these things on HN, there is neither the technical or process knowledge here, I could be totally wrong but I have looked hard to disprove myself. The solution I propose Starlink -> box with billing / access control + terabytes of offline vids/books + fun online games, that an idiot with determination can manage and make a profit or run free and works well in a country where the MPAA doesn't exist.
  - RenThraysk 1y ago
    Your analogy with books doesn't really work. As a book is only usable by one individual at a time. Whereas a digital book can be shared.
  - nchmy 1y ago
    I've spent the past 8 years focused on this theme, more or less, because my conclusion after finding things like internet on a box (and various similar projects) was that they offer too much information (and also present it in a useless manner). I've lived in many deeply impoverished communities, and they don't need a full version of Wikipedia, or a medical encyclopedia. They need to know how to easily and cheaply implement basic sanitation and hygiene, basic first aid and nutrition, efficient sustainable cooking and agricultural practices etc... Plenty of effort was spent on that stuff in the Appropriate Technology movement, but all I ever see from it all is wiki articles or 70 page pdfs (which many can't even read, even even if they were in their native language). No one is learning anything from those resources. I brought this up with some orgs similar to IIAB, and they were just bewildered. So, I made it my life's work to address this in a genuinely useful, accessible, practical way. Hopefully I'll be able to share something in the next year or two... This, of course, is not to say that they don't have the current or future potential to learn these things, let alone that such info should be withheld. But it's just a matter of practicality of time, resources, efficacy etc. If they can get out of extreme poverty - which many basic things can very much help with - maybe they'll have more time, health and money to pursue academic education, etc The proof of this, of course, is that we have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and have self-evidently done very little with it.
    - pluto_modadic 1y ago
      Agreed - it's not all of wikipedia, it's the parts that matter. They could do this with much less storage. Maybe just an SD card in an old phone?
      - nchmy 1y ago
        What I'm getting at is that even wikipedia is not useful for communities who completely lack education (and perhaps even reading ability), technology, and economic stability. They need, more than anything, to get sanitation, clean air, nutrition, larger crop yields from healthier soil and better practices, etc... Wikipedia doesn't have any of that info. Even Appropedia doesn't really - its too superficial (and not translated) to be actionable, especially for these groups of people. Once those issues are sorted out via more appropriate teaching and logistical methods, solidarity, etc... they'll have health, time, and money with which academics and anything else can be pursued. Its just basic Maslow's hierarchy of needs... All of the people who are working on these sorts of offline education projects are completely out of touch.

nchmy 1y ago

Could you elaborate on/point us towards resources about why it does not work?

aaron695 1y ago
It's been around since 2012 and the best Wikipedia has - "explored using these boxes in the Dominican Republic for three months." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet-in-a-Box https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet-in-a-Box Where is a follow up study 3 years later? Are there any follow up studies [1]? (I have said in past comments the medical version might work, it failed in the Dominican Republic [1]) One follow up study - [1] https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/2023-01/Internet%20In%20a%20Box.pdf https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/2023-01/In... which is not real positive. Why does it not work? An idea to think about, physical encyclopedias and university textbooks have been around forever and accessible. I've worked in schools with 1000's on one ADSL trying to use proxies to cache. I've volunteered for a few years in country on mobile apps for use in very low PPI villages without internet. I'm not coming at this with zero experience. It's impossible to discuss these things on HN, there is neither the technical or process knowledge here, I could be totally wrong but I have looked hard to disprove myself. The solution I propose Starlink -> box with billing / access control + terabytes of offline vids/books + fun online games, that an idiot with determination can manage and make a profit or run free and works well in a country where the MPAA doesn't exist.
- RenThraysk 1y ago
  Your analogy with books doesn't really work. As a book is only usable by one individual at a time. Whereas a digital book can be shared.
- nchmy 1y ago
  I've spent the past 8 years focused on this theme, more or less, because my conclusion after finding things like internet on a box (and various similar projects) was that they offer too much information (and also present it in a useless manner). I've lived in many deeply impoverished communities, and they don't need a full version of Wikipedia, or a medical encyclopedia. They need to know how to easily and cheaply implement basic sanitation and hygiene, basic first aid and nutrition, efficient sustainable cooking and agricultural practices etc... Plenty of effort was spent on that stuff in the Appropriate Technology movement, but all I ever see from it all is wiki articles or 70 page pdfs (which many can't even read, even even if they were in their native language). No one is learning anything from those resources. I brought this up with some orgs similar to IIAB, and they were just bewildered. So, I made it my life's work to address this in a genuinely useful, accessible, practical way. Hopefully I'll be able to share something in the next year or two... This, of course, is not to say that they don't have the current or future potential to learn these things, let alone that such info should be withheld. But it's just a matter of practicality of time, resources, efficacy etc. If they can get out of extreme poverty - which many basic things can very much help with - maybe they'll have more time, health and money to pursue academic education, etc The proof of this, of course, is that we have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and have self-evidently done very little with it.
  - pluto_modadic 1y ago
    Agreed - it's not all of wikipedia, it's the parts that matter. They could do this with much less storage. Maybe just an SD card in an old phone?
    - nchmy 1y ago
      What I'm getting at is that even wikipedia is not useful for communities who completely lack education (and perhaps even reading ability), technology, and economic stability. They need, more than anything, to get sanitation, clean air, nutrition, larger crop yields from healthier soil and better practices, etc... Wikipedia doesn't have any of that info. Even Appropedia doesn't really - its too superficial (and not translated) to be actionable, especially for these groups of people. Once those issues are sorted out via more appropriate teaching and logistical methods, solidarity, etc... they'll have health, time, and money with which academics and anything else can be pursued. Its just basic Maslow's hierarchy of needs... All of the people who are working on these sorts of offline education projects are completely out of touch.