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Sprint deployed WiMAX (remember that?) fairly widely, lot of good that did them. mmWave is as dead as dead. The cellular Betamax. iPhone 16e (the everyman's iP

Sprint deployed WiMAX (remember that?) fairly widely, lot of good that did them. mmWave is as dead as dead. The cellular Betamax. iPhone 16e (the everyman's iPhone) doesn't support it, and neither did the SE before it. VZW will be converting those base stations into birdhouses in 5-7 years.

esseph 1y ago
That's sad for Apple, then. A poor decision on their part. Examples of Android phones that often support mmWave 5G: Samsung: Many Galaxy S and Z series models, including recent releases. Google: Pixel phones, especially the Pro models. OnePlus: Various 5G phones, including the 10 Pro, 10T, and Nord series. (etc) Apple should get their shit together.
- adrr 1y ago
  It never worked unless you were walking on the street. Expensive too, I heard $20 per antenna. Millimeter is good for fixed antenna and delivering internet last mile to homes. Verizon bought into it millimeter while TMobile focused on mid bands, why T-Mobile is faster on average than Verizon. People use their phones indoors.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Absolutely correct on all the above. T-Mobile is also using mmwave and retaining it in urban cores, but returning a lot of the spectrum. There's a LOT of spectrum work being done at the FCC right now... Or was...
- joecool1029 1y ago
  > OnePlus: Various 5G phones, including the 10 Pro, 10T, and Nord series. The 9 pro was the last model they sold with mmwave. The entire 10 and 11 series don't have it. The Nord never did. > Apple should get their shit together. They ship mmwave on everything but their budget models?
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Those Samsungs lack mmWave antennas in Europe. Not sure about Apple.
cyberax 1y ago
mmWave is going to be useful in places like stadiums or large arenas, though. It works wonders in these kinds of applications. WiMAX never really worked well at all.
- wtallis 1y ago
  Stadiums are pretty much the only place where mmWave in phones makes sense. For the other 99.99% of usage, it's an expensive power-hungry extra radio that doesn't work. mmWave 5G is mostly a sunk cost for Verizon, and largely irrelevant to everyone else.
  - esseph 1y ago
    Stadiums, downtown areas, school sports, racetracks, etc. Any place outside, in good weather, with high population density!
  - maxsilver 1y ago
    > Stadiums are pretty much the only place where mmWave in phones makes sense. And Airports, and Parks, and Ampitheateaters, and Malls, and Theme Parks... mmWave isn't a general solution, sure. But mmWave is great for anywhere crowded enough to benefit from a DAS setup, and there are a lot of DAS setups around.
    - joecool1029 1y ago
      In any case it was a much better solution than band 46 license assisted access LTE-A/NR-U which used unlicensed 5Ghz spectrum shared with wifi. If we want to talk about vaporware/abandoned stuff, this was among the most controversial and least deployed solutions to those areas before mmwave became a thing.
      - maxsilver 1y ago
        Agreed. Stealing public WiFi spectrum for private LTE was always a terrible idea.
  - 1y ago
piltdownman 1y ago
If mmWave is dead as dead, why are Ofcom going ahead with their spectrum auction? https://www.mobileworldlive.com/europe/ofcom-moves-ahead-with-2025-mmwave-auction-plan/ https://www.mobileworldlive.com/europe/ofcom-moves-ahead-wit... Nokia is also currently rolling out Europe’s first 5G standalone mmWave Radio Access Network in Italy. More to the point though, it could be integral in how we deal with NTN - particularly LEO D2C provisioning https://filtronic.com/news-events/white-papers/time-to-step-up-to-mmwave-to-unlock-potential-of-leo-satellites-for-global-data-connectivity/ https://filtronic.com/news-events/white-papers/time-to-step-... https://mmtron.com/mmwave-leo-satellites-coming-over-the-horizon/ https://mmtron.com/mmwave-leo-satellites-coming-over-the-hor...
ryukoposting 1y ago
"Cellular Betamax" would suggest someone knowingly used it, and a handful of people actually liked it and committed to it.

esseph 1y ago

That's sad for Apple, then. A poor decision on their part. Examples of Android phones that often support mmWave 5G: Samsung: Many Galaxy S and Z series models, including recent releases. Google: Pixel phones, especially the Pro models. OnePlus: Various 5G phones, including the 10 Pro, 10T, and Nord series. (etc) Apple should get their shit together.

adrr 1y ago
It never worked unless you were walking on the street. Expensive too, I heard $20 per antenna. Millimeter is good for fixed antenna and delivering internet last mile to homes. Verizon bought into it millimeter while TMobile focused on mid bands, why T-Mobile is faster on average than Verizon. People use their phones indoors.
- esseph 1y ago
  Absolutely correct on all the above. T-Mobile is also using mmwave and retaining it in urban cores, but returning a lot of the spectrum. There's a LOT of spectrum work being done at the FCC right now... Or was...
joecool1029 1y ago
> OnePlus: Various 5G phones, including the 10 Pro, 10T, and Nord series. The 9 pro was the last model they sold with mmwave. The entire 10 and 11 series don't have it. The Nord never did. > Apple should get their shit together. They ship mmwave on everything but their budget models?
wkat4242 1y ago
Those Samsungs lack mmWave antennas in Europe. Not sure about Apple.

cyberax 1y ago

mmWave is going to be useful in places like stadiums or large arenas, though. It works wonders in these kinds of applications. WiMAX never really worked well at all.

wtallis 1y ago
Stadiums are pretty much the only place where mmWave in phones makes sense. For the other 99.99% of usage, it's an expensive power-hungry extra radio that doesn't work. mmWave 5G is mostly a sunk cost for Verizon, and largely irrelevant to everyone else.
- esseph 1y ago
  Stadiums, downtown areas, school sports, racetracks, etc. Any place outside, in good weather, with high population density!
- maxsilver 1y ago
  > Stadiums are pretty much the only place where mmWave in phones makes sense. And Airports, and Parks, and Ampitheateaters, and Malls, and Theme Parks... mmWave isn't a general solution, sure. But mmWave is great for anywhere crowded enough to benefit from a DAS setup, and there are a lot of DAS setups around.
  - joecool1029 1y ago
    In any case it was a much better solution than band 46 license assisted access LTE-A/NR-U which used unlicensed 5Ghz spectrum shared with wifi. If we want to talk about vaporware/abandoned stuff, this was among the most controversial and least deployed solutions to those areas before mmwave became a thing.
    - maxsilver 1y ago
      Agreed. Stealing public WiFi spectrum for private LTE was always a terrible idea.
- 1y ago

piltdownman 1y ago

If mmWave is dead as dead, why are Ofcom going ahead with their spectrum auction? https://www.mobileworldlive.com/europe/ofcom-moves-ahead-with-2025-mmwave-auction-plan/ https://www.mobileworldlive.com/europe/ofcom-moves-ahead-wit... Nokia is also currently rolling out Europe’s first 5G standalone mmWave Radio Access Network in Italy. More to the point though, it could be integral in how we deal with NTN - particularly LEO D2C provisioning https://filtronic.com/news-events/white-papers/time-to-step-up-to-mmwave-to-unlock-potential-of-leo-satellites-for-global-data-connectivity/ https://filtronic.com/news-events/white-papers/time-to-step-... https://mmtron.com/mmwave-leo-satellites-coming-over-the-horizon/ https://mmtron.com/mmwave-leo-satellites-coming-over-the-hor...

ryukoposting 1y ago

"Cellular Betamax" would suggest someone knowingly used it, and a handful of people actually liked it and committed to it.