11 ms·

Thoughts Upon Slavery (1774)

35 points by mike-the-mikado 1y ago

muser8 1y ago
This has to be the most inaccessible page I've seen in nearly 25 (30?) years.
- saghm 1y ago
  The styling honestly is reminiscent of 90s webpages, so I wouldn't find it shocking if it is a couple decades old and just hasn't been updated.
  - saghm 1y ago
    Looking closer at the URL, I realize now it has "2002_09_10" in the path. Presumably it was created then and hasn't been fully rewritten since, so while not quite 25 years old, it seems that might be the reason it doesn't have any recent accessibility features.
- pclmulqdq 1y ago
  What is inaccessible about a bunch of text on a page? It's readable in any kind of viewer you want, and a screen reader or a braille display can parse it. Does "accessibility" now mean that you have to have a navbar at the top of the screen for some reason?
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    The fact that almost every single link on the page goes to a 404, times out, or says Forbidden, might have something to do with it. Or the gigantic, seemingly meaningless URL. I don't know what this page is, but it doesn't seem to exist in any kind of context of a larger website. How did anybody even find this in the first place?
    - lelandfe 1y ago
      "Accessible," like so many words, means different things to different people. You're saying this page seems inaccessible: how did anyone find this page? How is a person meant to access this stranded corner of the web? They're saying this page has good accessibility: those with impaired vision, who use text to speech tools and the like, would not face difficulty with this simple HTML.
      - IAmBroom 1y ago
        It's dumber than that. They're saying it is inaccessible because they don't like the URL. That's like giving a product on Amazon one star in a review because you don't like the vendor's SKU code.
    - myhf 1y ago
      Cool URLs don't change [1], and that page has had the same URL for 251 years [1] https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI
      - crazygringo 1y ago
        Ah yes, if link rot accumulates over time then that would certainly explain it. ;)
- jp57 1y ago
  It looks fine in Safari reader mode. Pretty sure most other browsers have something similar.
travisgriggs 1y ago
The world needs more people like John Wesley. Sad the heros we choose instead.
- ivape 1y ago
  There are plenty of people that have thought like this on all kinds of issues from the past and now currently as well. I suspect someone like Wesley and the Abolitionists were called unrealistic and unpragmatic in their time period, just as people who speak out about certain things today are called delusional and idealistic. Pacified and moral opinions are very much available, you just have to be willing to be part of a minority that regularly gets derided as naive.
ashoeafoot 1y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya Here, all the slavery one can defeat. Tolerated by a culture with 2 billion heads. And it is utterly ignored for whatever hipocritical reasons. Same in China, were the lower classes from the village will be treated like owned air by the rich cityzens. All beneath a thin layer of western mimicry.Yet, im supposed to ignore the living, for what was back then a battle for the living and is today a civil war flag, for the western cultural block, the only block that marched with sic sempre tyrannis on the barbary cost and fought to better itself. The wingnuttery has to end, reality has to be embraced and the atrocities in it fought. Wherever they are.
stogot 1y ago
There are more slaves today than any point in history. Sad but true fact we don’t think of in modern times. I recommend donating to the ImJ who help find and free slaves, prosecute abusers, and educate and help the victims thrive in their freedom https://www.ijm.org/ https://www.ijm.org/
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  Who doesn't think of it?
  - jvanderbot 1y ago
    Modern slavery was not on my radar until reading this thread. You really have to live in a self righteous echo chamber to assume that all the people you want to join your cause should already know about it.
    - Braxton1980 1y ago
      So you were using "we" in the royal sense? >You really have to live in a self righteous echo chamber to assume that all the people you want to join your cause should already know about it. Just to confirm, is "you" referring to me or is it more like you're pointing your finger at the world in general?
      - jvanderbot 1y ago
        It's silly for anyone to treat a person who is newly-interested in an important issue as ignorant for not knowing about that issue, as it would alienate a potential new supporter. The statement "Who doesn't think about it" implies everyone should already know about it. I literally never once thought there'd be many modern slaves let alone more than ever before. I'm glad I do know that now though. A lot of good ideas or causes die on the incorrect assumption of obviousness that is just kind of assumed by the "aware" groups.
        deleted 1y ago
endoblast 1y ago
>In what manner are they procured? This really is the key: the manner reveals the motivation and morality is about motivations, which makes it understandable why slavery existed in the ancient world. Suppose your country is invaded by a belligerent neighbour one summer and you manage to fend off the attack and capture most of the enemy soldiers. What do you do with them afterwards: (1) let them go, (2) kill them, (3) cut off their right thumbs and release them, (4) make them your slaves? The obvious problem with (1) is that if you let them go they may return next year and succeed in the job of murdering you and destroying your nation or tribe. (2) and (3) are fairly cruel and barbaric. Which leaves (4).
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  "Cruel and barbaric" is not necessarily a drawback to everyone. History shows it's not much of a deterrent at all. Unfortunately. EDIT: I think the real cause behind slavery is not and has never been "controlling war prisoners". It's personal profit. War raids between small tribes to capture "wives" from outside their local gene pool is one such, well-document example.

muser8 1y ago

This has to be the most inaccessible page I've seen in nearly 25 (30?) years.

saghm 1y ago
The styling honestly is reminiscent of 90s webpages, so I wouldn't find it shocking if it is a couple decades old and just hasn't been updated.
- saghm 1y ago
  Looking closer at the URL, I realize now it has "2002_09_10" in the path. Presumably it was created then and hasn't been fully rewritten since, so while not quite 25 years old, it seems that might be the reason it doesn't have any recent accessibility features.
pclmulqdq 1y ago
What is inaccessible about a bunch of text on a page? It's readable in any kind of viewer you want, and a screen reader or a braille display can parse it. Does "accessibility" now mean that you have to have a navbar at the top of the screen for some reason?
- crazygringo 1y ago
  The fact that almost every single link on the page goes to a 404, times out, or says Forbidden, might have something to do with it. Or the gigantic, seemingly meaningless URL. I don't know what this page is, but it doesn't seem to exist in any kind of context of a larger website. How did anybody even find this in the first place?
  - lelandfe 1y ago
    "Accessible," like so many words, means different things to different people. You're saying this page seems inaccessible: how did anyone find this page? How is a person meant to access this stranded corner of the web? They're saying this page has good accessibility: those with impaired vision, who use text to speech tools and the like, would not face difficulty with this simple HTML.
    - IAmBroom 1y ago
      It's dumber than that. They're saying it is inaccessible because they don't like the URL. That's like giving a product on Amazon one star in a review because you don't like the vendor's SKU code.
  - myhf 1y ago
    Cool URLs don't change [1], and that page has had the same URL for 251 years [1] https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      Ah yes, if link rot accumulates over time then that would certainly explain it. ;)
jp57 1y ago
It looks fine in Safari reader mode. Pretty sure most other browsers have something similar.

travisgriggs 1y ago

The world needs more people like John Wesley. Sad the heros we choose instead.

ivape 1y ago
There are plenty of people that have thought like this on all kinds of issues from the past and now currently as well. I suspect someone like Wesley and the Abolitionists were called unrealistic and unpragmatic in their time period, just as people who speak out about certain things today are called delusional and idealistic. Pacified and moral opinions are very much available, you just have to be willing to be part of a minority that regularly gets derided as naive.

ashoeafoot 1y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya Here, all the slavery one can defeat. Tolerated by a culture with 2 billion heads. And it is utterly ignored for whatever hipocritical reasons. Same in China, were the lower classes from the village will be treated like owned air by the rich cityzens. All beneath a thin layer of western mimicry.Yet, im supposed to ignore the living, for what was back then a battle for the living and is today a civil war flag, for the western cultural block, the only block that marched with sic sempre tyrannis on the barbary cost and fought to better itself. The wingnuttery has to end, reality has to be embraced and the atrocities in it fought. Wherever they are.

stogot 1y ago

There are more slaves today than any point in history. Sad but true fact we don’t think of in modern times. I recommend donating to the ImJ who help find and free slaves, prosecute abusers, and educate and help the victims thrive in their freedom https://www.ijm.org/ https://www.ijm.org/

Braxton1980 1y ago
Who doesn't think of it?
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  Modern slavery was not on my radar until reading this thread. You really have to live in a self righteous echo chamber to assume that all the people you want to join your cause should already know about it.
  - Braxton1980 1y ago
    So you were using "we" in the royal sense? >You really have to live in a self righteous echo chamber to assume that all the people you want to join your cause should already know about it. Just to confirm, is "you" referring to me or is it more like you're pointing your finger at the world in general?
    - jvanderbot 1y ago
      It's silly for anyone to treat a person who is newly-interested in an important issue as ignorant for not knowing about that issue, as it would alienate a potential new supporter. The statement "Who doesn't think about it" implies everyone should already know about it. I literally never once thought there'd be many modern slaves let alone more than ever before. I'm glad I do know that now though. A lot of good ideas or causes die on the incorrect assumption of obviousness that is just kind of assumed by the "aware" groups.
      - deleted 1y ago

endoblast 1y ago

>In what manner are they procured? This really is the key: the manner reveals the motivation and morality is about motivations, which makes it understandable why slavery existed in the ancient world. Suppose your country is invaded by a belligerent neighbour one summer and you manage to fend off the attack and capture most of the enemy soldiers. What do you do with them afterwards: (1) let them go, (2) kill them, (3) cut off their right thumbs and release them, (4) make them your slaves? The obvious problem with (1) is that if you let them go they may return next year and succeed in the job of murdering you and destroying your nation or tribe. (2) and (3) are fairly cruel and barbaric. Which leaves (4).

IAmBroom 1y ago
"Cruel and barbaric" is not necessarily a drawback to everyone. History shows it's not much of a deterrent at all. Unfortunately. EDIT: I think the real cause behind slavery is not and has never been "controlling war prisoners". It's personal profit. War raids between small tribes to capture "wives" from outside their local gene pool is one such, well-document example.