14 ms·

Boxie – an always offline audio player for my 3 year old

286 points by badlogic 1y ago

OccamsMirror 1y ago
This is pretty awesome. Although disheartening that you ended up spending much more than just buying a Yoto player or Toniebox. But I'm sure the learning and accomplishment have been worth the expense.
- badlogic 1y ago
  Just factoring in the BOM cost including 3D printer materials this comes out quite below a retail Tonie Box. The same is true for the cartridges vs. Tonie figurines. The tools are definitely a big expense, but are in constant use for other projects, so ammortize. What's not factored in is the time spent working on this. I don't feel too bad about it, as working on this essentially replaced watching shows or movie at night when everyone is asleep.
scosman 1y ago
This is brilliant. Great design and great work. I love that the cartridges actually hold the content and aren't just NFC tags. For lazy parents like myself: check out a Yoto player. It's web-connected, has limited internal storage, and the cards are just NFC cards -- but it is easy.
- mc3301 1y ago
  Bonus: The yoto a nice 'normal' bluetooth speaker, as well.
- turtlebits 1y ago
  Actual cartridges makes sense if there are other players, otherwise a PCB and SD card seems like a huge waste over a nfc card that costs a few cents.
  - badlogic 1y ago
    I'll be building a few of these for the kids in the neighbourhood. I hope they'll start swaping and trading like we did with our Gameboy games.
  - scosman 1y ago
    It's just damn cool and worth the $2. Plus more reliable, no syncing, no web-connection. New content is just new content. Not how you'd build it at scale, but that's kinda the point.
- jdhawk 1y ago
  My kids love theirs, and we get tons of comments from other parents since they'll happily listen to stories on them instead of begging for a screen. They swap cards with their friends, and so long as its on a wifi connection the first time the card is inserted, the local storage is plenty enough to keep the cache there for offline use.
- taco_emoji 1y ago
  We have a Yoto and it's okay, but my complaint is how difficult it is to get custom stuff on there. The "record-your-own" cards are expensive (and often unavailable, like during this past Christmas season), and off-the-shelf NFC cards don't work perfectly (you have to ensure the content is downloaded onto the device before a generic card will work for that title).
  - aeroevan 1y ago
    it does take a surprisingly long time for the device to download the content for offline use, but my only real complaint is that I can't self host the server side (it seems to do some ssl certificate pinning or something similar).
userbinator 1y ago
This device reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitClips https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitClips (also worth reading: https://hackaday.com/2022/01/10/hitclips-custom-cartridge-hack-will-never-give-up-let-down-or-turn-around/ https://hackaday.com/2022/01/10/hitclips-custom-cartridge-ha... ) It's unfortunate that "always offline" needs to be added, as that would be the norm 15-20 years ago when portable media players were at the peak of their popularity. You can still buy SD/TF/microSD players at a very, very low price today.
theamk 1y ago
For people who are thinking about getting into electronics: that project is very complex for what it does. Nothing wrong with it as long as your goal is to learn advanced fabrication techniques, but most people don't need any of this stuff for one-off, home projects with no strict low price / small size requirements. The main culprit is that "custom ESP32-S3 board" - in this application, it is equivalent to a combination of a random off-the-shelf ESP32 board and a separate battery charger/protector. Half of the equipment on the list (hot air, hot plate, microscope, logic analyzer, etc...) is only needed for this board. Weirdly enough, the rest of the device is a solid design, suitable for someone with "a few months" of electronic experience: lots of pre-made modules, and designing a carrier PCB for them. This means large and easy to solder 2.54mm hole spacing, regular soldering iron, no microscope, etc.. It's a really weird contrast for me....
- nine_k 1y ago
  I suppose this project served as a source of joy not only to the kid, but to the maker, too. It likely was a good excuse to do a lot of stuff that's not strictly necessary but is fun to do, and buy a lot of gear that's not strictly necessary but is a pleasure to use. The result is somehow better and more solid due to that, too. Regarding the solidness of the mechanical design, I have my doubts. The volume know is too small, and too close to the navigation buttons. The speaker grill is too coarse, allowing small items to easily drop inside. The cartridge attachment is not sturdy, not self-adjusting, and relatively easy to snap off. If anything, I would rework the mechanical part. (Alas, my kids are too old now.)
- jtwaleson 1y ago
  Agreed, and it seems to stem from the NiMH requirement. Maybe designing a protective shell around a LiPO battery (to avoid puncture damage) would have made more sense? Pretty impressive work though! I think you must have learned a lot. I've spent quite some time on about 5 different projects that were way less polished, but it seems we have picked up the same level of skills along the way. The post is very recognizable ;) Looking forward to the your project!
  - alnwlsn 1y ago
broken_broken_ 1y ago
Fantastic article! But when I read “inspired by the Gameboy form factor”, I thought the cartridge would insert much deeper, like a Gameboy (maybe not all the way so that the picture on the cartridge is still visible) . That way it cannot be accidentally yanked out. It’s probably a dust trap but it’s more robust and compact.
sandreas 1y ago
Great post, thank you. I had a similar experience a while ago and believe me that building such a thing is a SERIOUS investment in time - especially as a parent. While admiring the effort and the result, I can't recommend anyone to go for such a self-made device, if it is not for the learning experience and the fun of the project. I've built a "Phoniebox"[1] and a "Tonuino"[2] and both were used pretty heavily by my kids. The biggest issue I experienced is the "creation" of media. While this should be an easy task, it just takes it's time. Creating the cartridge, printing the image, copying the file, etc... As my daughter was getting older (>4) it was so much easier to just buy a CD Player and used CDs. In the meantime we use an old Smartphone (offline) as spare device with Audiobookshelf to sync the media locally and VLC Media Player to play them. 1: https://github.com/MiczFlor/RPi-Jukebox-RFID https://github.com/MiczFlor/RPi-Jukebox-RFID 2: https://github.com/tonuino/TonUINO-TNG https://github.com/tonuino/TonUINO-TNG
- nvahalik 1y ago
  With my kids, I just burned them CDs and bought them $15 CD players. They use them a lot. This gives my wife and I ultimate control over what they play—plus we find CDs at estate sales that allow them to build a collection ~$1 at a time.
gvalkov 1y ago
I recently built something[1] similar, though with far less effort and sophistication than the author. The goal was to have a plug-and-play audiobook player for an elderly family member with impaired vision. In retrospect, it would have been better to adapt an old phone or tablet with a macropad rather than build this on top of an espmuse speaker[2]. I keep thinking that a cassette player would be the ideal interface for something like this. The controls are as obvious and as tactile as it gets and the whole analog-mechanical experience is familiar to folks from that generation. If only tapes could hold more than two hours of audio ... [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/1269288-audiobook-player https://www.printables.com/model/1269288-audiobook-player [2]: https://raspiaudio.com/product/esp-muse-luxe/ https://raspiaudio.com/product/esp-muse-luxe/
- Dyac 1y ago
  Could something like [1] work? My understanding is it's a "fake tape" that has an SD slot and can be used in any player. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Funnytoday365-Telecontrol-Cassette-Player-Adapter/dp/B01LNYKOAM https://www.amazon.com/Funnytoday365-Telecontrol-Cassette-Pl...
- sriacha 1y ago
  Any tips for setting up a smartphone with a macropad as mentioned? I like this idea but worry it introduces a lot of complexity for the non-smartphone literate population. Regarding the cassette player, in the US the 'National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled' has a player with an excellent simple interface, using cartridges for each book: https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-tbbl-2.jpg https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-t...
- abdullahkhalids 1y ago
  A standard cassette has two hours in it. You can always make larger cassette's yourself.
mongol 1y ago
> It's his daily driver, be it at the breakfast table or when going for stroll in his buggy. This sounds so strange to me, but then I am not a native English speaker.
- sigmaisaletter 1y ago
  "daily driver" originally used to mean "car to use every day", as opposed to "fun car for the weekend". Its meaning then broadened to mean anything which is the most-used example. Here it just means "my kid uses it every day".
ololobus 1y ago
I was wondering how cartridges are designed and I think it’s a very simple and elegant design — just wire the standard microSD card. Otherwise, I love such cozy projects. Even if they are not that efficient, they solve the problem and bring joy into someone’s life, both author’s and a small user (in this case).
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chaosprint 1y ago
this is very cool i am also working with esp32 s3 but only write rust code https://youtu.be/y2Hi9ThKcy8?si=yV8onefVb9o7MdHC https://youtu.be/y2Hi9ThKcy8?si=yV8onefVb9o7MdHC My goal is to send midi wirelessly. I'm curious why you chose the ESP32? Because if you're working offline, the cost for its most well-known features - BLE and WiFi - would be unnecessary.
- zild3d 1y ago
  Not op but I would also just use an ESP32 since they're super cheap, I already know how to work with them, and there's a pile of em in the drawer. If producing multiple, yeah esp32 is overkill, but when cost is <$5 wouldn't be worth the time to make the project harder to get started
- badlogic 1y ago
  I have about 25 laying around idle. And I wrote a little C framework around ESP-IDF, which simplifies the software part. I was also sure the ESP32 can decode MP3s in real-time without a problem.
HenryBemis 1y ago
Definitely NOT going to build that. I haven't touched a soldering iron in 30-35 years, and don't plan to do so again. Perhaps after retirement (and with some massive magnifying lens) I was thinking to buy and make some cool 'ready-to-built-kits' with silly stuff I don't really _need_. But I do miss those days that I would blow a fuse because I made a mistake in the soldering.. heh.. good/fun days!
icoder 1y ago
Cool! I'm working on something comparable, but with the audio stored on a single SD and playback triggered using an RFID tag that we can than stick on wooden figures made by my GF (or anything 3D printed). I'm still iterating over hardware, realising Pi Zero is a bit of overkill, using too many NiMH batteries in series may actually break those batteries, that ESP8266 has much less GPIO's available than the module design suggests, among other lessons learned. My current approach is Pi Pico (ESP32 was the alternative) with a DfPlayer Mini and a 32GB SD card. The DfPlayer isn't too keen on running on 3v3 from cheaper LDO's (which are on the modules I'm using) so my current approach uses a small power bank. That just offloads the hard part (for me) of battery management to the professionals. This weekend I added a few resistors and a transistor to draw extra power (0.5secs every 20 seconds) to keep the power bank awake. But I have different LDO's and an ESP32 coming in, so it's not fully decided yet. Will for sure scan this thread and OP's article for more ideas!
neilv 1y ago
When 3D-printing toys for young children, are there any safety tips to know? (I'm wondering things like material toxicity, microplastics, teething hazards, swallow hazards, fracturing to sharp pieces, rounded corners, etc.)
- badlogic 1y ago
  I used PLA, which is a non toxic bio plastic. ABS is also an option for at-home 3D printing, which is the material used in lego bricks. At his age, he doesn't put anything in his mouth anymore, so swallow hazards were not a concern. That said, the only thing that's small enough for him to swallow are the buttons and the knob, which can not be detached from the device without unscrewing the enclosure. If he is able to do that, nothing is save.
  - herbst 1y ago
    Pretty sure the issue with 3d printing materials is that they contain additional materials other than PLA and ABS for proper melting and flowage and those could indeed be an issue. I have some actually recyclable PLA but even that has no real no toxicity rating.
    - badlogic 1y ago
      That's good information, thanks!
- lawn 1y ago
  You should never put anything 3D printed into your mouth, regardless if you swallow it or not, because 3D prints aren't "food safe" and may release small pieces. Also, some materials are hazardous to print (ABS or resin for example) but fine when they've cooled down.
- herbst 1y ago
  Next to what others have said (pretty sure there are only very few PLAs who are even close to actual non toxic in terms of small traces of helper materials) but there are finishings you can use to make it food save! I wouldn't eat from it, but it works and would pretty much solve any issues. Pretty sure those finishing resins are marketing to finish Beton and stuff like that.
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Ai_Summary 1y ago
Great idea, so many proprietary and DRM locked solutions exist, all incompatible with each other. For power wouldn't an internally routed trace on the cartridge function better than the switch on a stick? the gold contact fingers could have been offset so it doesn't power up till fully inserted.
- badlogic 1y ago
  That's an excellent idea that didn't occur to me! If I build a new revision, I'll give that a try.
neuroelectron 1y ago
It's amazing what you can accomplish when abusing adhd meds.
dmd 1y ago
I had grand plans to build something like this when my kids were small, but ended up building this https://github.com/dmd/nkplay/ https://github.com/dmd/nkplay/ instead. It's just a rpi plugged into a standalone numeric keypad, acting as a jukebox. Playlists are numbered. By the time my kids were about three, they could enter the numbers on their own, and by four they had memorized the playlists so well they didn't look at the printed catalog any more.
- badlogic 1y ago
  I love this idea!
- dukoid 1y ago
  I wonder if one of the Anberinc (or similar) devices with single-purpose software would be an option for people shy of going into hardware...
fsckboy 1y ago
>I also need an IC to convert the I2S signal (currently sent to the MAX98357A) to a headphone output. I haven't researched options yet. The motherboard will need additional routing to send the I2S signal from the ESP32-S3 to both the MAX98357A and this new IC. Suggestions welcome! isn't a headphone just a high impedance speaker? you just grab the same output that goes to the speakers and reroute it through a big resistor to the headphones. did a little searching, here you go (the extra resistance isn't that great) https://samtechpro.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-to-use-speaker-output-for.html https://samtechpro.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-to-use-speaker-o... i suggest put efforts into stereo for speaker and headphones, more pleasing, and wouldn't stereo set the stage for truer brain development?
JansjoFromIkea 1y ago
I really like this, it looks great! Did you investigate using a MiniDisc player at any point? I could see a minidisc player with some kind of shell and a DIY inline remote working with relatively little. Never actually used one enough to know how much they'd withstand a kid though!
carpenecopinum 1y ago
Besides being a great project, this device reminds me a lot of the Technifant (https://technifant.de https://technifant.de) which, under the hood, is similarly simple. The "hats" that you put on the Technifant contain a cheap USB thumb drive with the contacts soldered to a magnetic connector. All the audio is stored locally on the hat itself, and you can even add your own MP3 files with a cable provided by the manufacturer.
sriacha 1y ago
Does anyone have suggestions for an simple audiobook/music player like this for the elderly and or those mild dementia? It should have large, tactile buttons, simple play/pause interface, volume control (ideally knob), and be able to read from sdcard or usb/ - I've used the Relish 'dementia radio' [1] before. Its a radio with support for reading from usb, but has no memory so useless for audiobooks. Very overpriced. - The 'National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled' has excellent cassette type players [2], but they only take their cartridges. Ideally something this format but supporting usb/sd card - Another comment [3] here suggests a smartphone with a macropad. this could work. they also built a custom solution. [1] https://relish-life.com/en-us/products/relish-radio https://relish-life.com/en-us/products/relish-radio [2] https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-tbbl-2.jpg https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-t... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43818639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43818639
- juujian 1y ago
  If there is enough material on Spotify, you could grab one of those mini-keyboards with 6 or nine buttons and remap them to play/pause, next, previos, and just leave it on shuffle on one playlist?
  - sriacha 1y ago
    I think that might be the easiest, or even one with 3 buttons and volume knob.
- tweetle_beetle 1y ago
  A Yoto player might work. They're designed for children. They have two knobs (with momentary switch) to control everything (and a small on/off button). They're designed to be usable by children who cannot read, primarily through Yoto cards. These are just NFC type cards with with some kind of DRM. They allow your player to connect to an API, download the audio content (books, music) and store it locally for instant playback whenever the card is inserted. Normally I hate vendor lock in stuff like this. But surprisingly they also sell "blank" cards. Using the app you can load any audio content "onto" them (same deal - audio is sent to cloud so it can be redownloaded if local storage runs out). These are pretty cheap and can be "wiped" and reused as many times as you want and you can write on them or mark them up. You can even design a specific image to show on screen when your custom card is inserted. The hardware is good quality too and can survive daily life. https://yotoplay.com/ https://yotoplay.com/
schnable 1y ago
Any suggestions for someone who wants to get started on a similar but less ambitious project, ideally without any soldering? Ie, more software and breadboard-style wiring.
- stavros 1y ago
  You can get a DFPlayer module: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007061184507.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007061184507.html Connect a speaker, hook it up to an ESP32, then connect some buttons to it so you can select the track to play.
bigstrat2003 1y ago
This is really cool! I don't remotely have the skills to pull this off, so I am in awe of what you achieved here. The explanations were pretty clear even for someone such as myself, but I was confused by one thing. If the device is powered by NiMH AAA batteries, why include the charging circuit, rather than just removing the batteries when needed to put into a dedicated charger?
- badlogic 1y ago
  Because this way, I (or my SO) doesn't have to unscrew the enclosure to get at the batteries. Usually, the batteries die, while the boy is in the middle of an audiobook. This way, we simply plug in a USB-C cable and everything keeps going.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    That makes sense, thanks for the clarification!
bufferoverflow 1y ago
Could be simplified a lot by making SD cards as cartridges.
- turblety 1y ago
  I think the beauty of this is that it's big and clunky. An SD card takes quite coordinated motor skills to insert, can be quite flimsy and has to be inserted with an exact fit.
  - delfinom 1y ago
    I think the real answer isn't motor skills.a 3 year old may eat a sd card. Lol
thih9 1y ago
Always offline is an underrated feature. Eg. my kindle is always offline, has been working great for the last 5+ years, I see no ads, upgrade prompts, UX changes, or slowdowns.
rideontime 1y ago
When he's older, you should blow his mind by putting DOOM back on it.
timcobb 1y ago
This is so cool, thanks so much for sharing this. Wow.
Dwedit 1y ago
Your "cartridge" could just as easily be a sheet of paper with a barcode/QR code printed on it.
bsdice 1y ago
His wife, chose wisely.
chromate 1y ago
I would love to do a project like this, but having toddlers around, how did he find the time to actually do this? These seems like hours and hours of learning and working (which I would love), but one of the things I miss most after having kids is having time for hobbies like this.
- badlogic 1y ago
  Instead of watching Netflix/YouTube/whatever or spending time on social media, I used 1-3 hours every night to learn and create.
rsync 1y ago
We needed this device and satisfied that need with a Sony Walkman: https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/walkman-mp3-players/p/nwe394-b https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders... Very simple. Shows up as a USB drive and I copy mp3 files to it. My son likes to listen to audiobooks so we purchase them at the maximum price possible and then download them from bittorrent.
butlike 1y ago
This is potentially a sell-able product
- salomonk_mur 1y ago
  It is. It exists. Many brands are discussed in the thread.
qq66 1y ago
If anyone wants this product but lacks these skills, I’ve been happy with the Hörbert. Expensive but very high quality.
perilunar 1y ago
My kids were little back when the original iPod came out. They were unable to use it because they couldn't read yet, and the early iPods had a text-only interface. But they were very capable using cassette players. The could identify different tapes by the images on the labels and cases, and were able to manipulate the tapes and controls easily. Also, cassette players are cheap and robust. So as cool as this project is, it's overkill. An old cassette player and a bunch of tapes would have worked just as well. (and when they get older they can graduate to CDs or vinyl !)
lproven 1y ago
We bought our 2YO a second-hand kiddie CD player, with 2 built-in karaoke microphones, and she loved it. Three years later, she still plays with it sometimes. William of Ockham had much to teach the 21st century “maker” community.
urbantrout 1y ago
I just went with a Tonie Box and hacked it with the help of [teddycloud](https://github.com/toniebox-reverse-engineering/teddycloud/ https://github.com/toniebox-reverse-engineering/teddycloud/) So there is no more need to buy expensive Tonie figurines. Instead I can use cheap RFID chips and pair them with any content. This project is very impressive though!
safasfdass 1y ago
While this is a neat project, the design is very strange. Most of the complexity seems to be a result of using the wrong components for the job. Having a huge PCB for an SD card is completely unnecessary. Also using enig for mechanically stressed contacts seems to come from a wrong understanding of why one would use enig. enig is for corrosion resistance, not mechanical resistance. Just use an rfid tag to read out the cartridge put into the console
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286 points by badlogic 1y ago

This is pretty awesome. Although disheartening that you ended up spending much more than just buying a Yoto player or Toniebox. But I'm sure the learning and accomplishment have been worth the expense.

badlogic 1y ago
Just factoring in the BOM cost including 3D printer materials this comes out quite below a retail Tonie Box. The same is true for the cartridges vs. Tonie figurines. The tools are definitely a big expense, but are in constant use for other projects, so ammortize. What's not factored in is the time spent working on this. I don't feel too bad about it, as working on this essentially replaced watching shows or movie at night when everyone is asleep.

scosman 1y ago

This is brilliant. Great design and great work. I love that the cartridges actually hold the content and aren't just NFC tags. For lazy parents like myself: check out a Yoto player. It's web-connected, has limited internal storage, and the cards are just NFC cards -- but it is easy.

mc3301 1y ago
Bonus: The yoto a nice 'normal' bluetooth speaker, as well.
turtlebits 1y ago
Actual cartridges makes sense if there are other players, otherwise a PCB and SD card seems like a huge waste over a nfc card that costs a few cents.
- badlogic 1y ago
  I'll be building a few of these for the kids in the neighbourhood. I hope they'll start swaping and trading like we did with our Gameboy games.
- scosman 1y ago
  It's just damn cool and worth the $2. Plus more reliable, no syncing, no web-connection. New content is just new content. Not how you'd build it at scale, but that's kinda the point.
jdhawk 1y ago
My kids love theirs, and we get tons of comments from other parents since they'll happily listen to stories on them instead of begging for a screen. They swap cards with their friends, and so long as its on a wifi connection the first time the card is inserted, the local storage is plenty enough to keep the cache there for offline use.
taco_emoji 1y ago
We have a Yoto and it's okay, but my complaint is how difficult it is to get custom stuff on there. The "record-your-own" cards are expensive (and often unavailable, like during this past Christmas season), and off-the-shelf NFC cards don't work perfectly (you have to ensure the content is downloaded onto the device before a generic card will work for that title).
- aeroevan 1y ago
  it does take a surprisingly long time for the device to download the content for offline use, but my only real complaint is that I can't self host the server side (it seems to do some ssl certificate pinning or something similar).

userbinator 1y ago

This device reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitClips https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HitClips (also worth reading: https://hackaday.com/2022/01/10/hitclips-custom-cartridge-hack-will-never-give-up-let-down-or-turn-around/ https://hackaday.com/2022/01/10/hitclips-custom-cartridge-ha... ) It's unfortunate that "always offline" needs to be added, as that would be the norm 15-20 years ago when portable media players were at the peak of their popularity. You can still buy SD/TF/microSD players at a very, very low price today.

theamk 1y ago

For people who are thinking about getting into electronics: that project is very complex for what it does. Nothing wrong with it as long as your goal is to learn advanced fabrication techniques, but most people don't need any of this stuff for one-off, home projects with no strict low price / small size requirements. The main culprit is that "custom ESP32-S3 board" - in this application, it is equivalent to a combination of a random off-the-shelf ESP32 board and a separate battery charger/protector. Half of the equipment on the list (hot air, hot plate, microscope, logic analyzer, etc...) is only needed for this board. Weirdly enough, the rest of the device is a solid design, suitable for someone with "a few months" of electronic experience: lots of pre-made modules, and designing a carrier PCB for them. This means large and easy to solder 2.54mm hole spacing, regular soldering iron, no microscope, etc.. It's a really weird contrast for me....

nine_k 1y ago
I suppose this project served as a source of joy not only to the kid, but to the maker, too. It likely was a good excuse to do a lot of stuff that's not strictly necessary but is fun to do, and buy a lot of gear that's not strictly necessary but is a pleasure to use. The result is somehow better and more solid due to that, too. Regarding the solidness of the mechanical design, I have my doubts. The volume know is too small, and too close to the navigation buttons. The speaker grill is too coarse, allowing small items to easily drop inside. The cartridge attachment is not sturdy, not self-adjusting, and relatively easy to snap off. If anything, I would rework the mechanical part. (Alas, my kids are too old now.)
jtwaleson 1y ago
Agreed, and it seems to stem from the NiMH requirement. Maybe designing a protective shell around a LiPO battery (to avoid puncture damage) would have made more sense? Pretty impressive work though! I think you must have learned a lot. I've spent quite some time on about 5 different projects that were way less polished, but it seems we have picked up the same level of skills along the way. The post is very recognizable ;) Looking forward to the your project!
- alnwlsn 1y ago

broken_broken_ 1y ago

Fantastic article! But when I read “inspired by the Gameboy form factor”, I thought the cartridge would insert much deeper, like a Gameboy (maybe not all the way so that the picture on the cartridge is still visible) . That way it cannot be accidentally yanked out. It’s probably a dust trap but it’s more robust and compact.

sandreas 1y ago

Great post, thank you. I had a similar experience a while ago and believe me that building such a thing is a SERIOUS investment in time - especially as a parent. While admiring the effort and the result, I can't recommend anyone to go for such a self-made device, if it is not for the learning experience and the fun of the project. I've built a "Phoniebox"[1] and a "Tonuino"[2] and both were used pretty heavily by my kids. The biggest issue I experienced is the "creation" of media. While this should be an easy task, it just takes it's time. Creating the cartridge, printing the image, copying the file, etc... As my daughter was getting older (>4) it was so much easier to just buy a CD Player and used CDs. In the meantime we use an old Smartphone (offline) as spare device with Audiobookshelf to sync the media locally and VLC Media Player to play them. 1: https://github.com/MiczFlor/RPi-Jukebox-RFID https://github.com/MiczFlor/RPi-Jukebox-RFID 2: https://github.com/tonuino/TonUINO-TNG https://github.com/tonuino/TonUINO-TNG

nvahalik 1y ago
With my kids, I just burned them CDs and bought them $15 CD players. They use them a lot. This gives my wife and I ultimate control over what they play—plus we find CDs at estate sales that allow them to build a collection ~$1 at a time.

gvalkov 1y ago

I recently built something[1] similar, though with far less effort and sophistication than the author. The goal was to have a plug-and-play audiobook player for an elderly family member with impaired vision. In retrospect, it would have been better to adapt an old phone or tablet with a macropad rather than build this on top of an espmuse speaker[2]. I keep thinking that a cassette player would be the ideal interface for something like this. The controls are as obvious and as tactile as it gets and the whole analog-mechanical experience is familiar to folks from that generation. If only tapes could hold more than two hours of audio ... [1]: https://www.printables.com/model/1269288-audiobook-player https://www.printables.com/model/1269288-audiobook-player [2]: https://raspiaudio.com/product/esp-muse-luxe/ https://raspiaudio.com/product/esp-muse-luxe/

Dyac 1y ago
Could something like [1] work? My understanding is it's a "fake tape" that has an SD slot and can be used in any player. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Funnytoday365-Telecontrol-Cassette-Player-Adapter/dp/B01LNYKOAM https://www.amazon.com/Funnytoday365-Telecontrol-Cassette-Pl...
sriacha 1y ago
Any tips for setting up a smartphone with a macropad as mentioned? I like this idea but worry it introduces a lot of complexity for the non-smartphone literate population. Regarding the cassette player, in the US the 'National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled' has a player with an excellent simple interface, using cartridges for each book: https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-tbbl-2.jpg https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-t...
abdullahkhalids 1y ago
A standard cassette has two hours in it. You can always make larger cassette's yourself.

mongol 1y ago

> It's his daily driver, be it at the breakfast table or when going for stroll in his buggy. This sounds so strange to me, but then I am not a native English speaker.

sigmaisaletter 1y ago
"daily driver" originally used to mean "car to use every day", as opposed to "fun car for the weekend". Its meaning then broadened to mean anything which is the most-used example. Here it just means "my kid uses it every day".

ololobus 1y ago

I was wondering how cartridges are designed and I think it’s a very simple and elegant design — just wire the standard microSD card. Otherwise, I love such cozy projects. Even if they are not that efficient, they solve the problem and bring joy into someone’s life, both author’s and a small user (in this case).

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chaosprint 1y ago

this is very cool i am also working with esp32 s3 but only write rust code https://youtu.be/y2Hi9ThKcy8?si=yV8onefVb9o7MdHC https://youtu.be/y2Hi9ThKcy8?si=yV8onefVb9o7MdHC My goal is to send midi wirelessly. I'm curious why you chose the ESP32? Because if you're working offline, the cost for its most well-known features - BLE and WiFi - would be unnecessary.

zild3d 1y ago
Not op but I would also just use an ESP32 since they're super cheap, I already know how to work with them, and there's a pile of em in the drawer. If producing multiple, yeah esp32 is overkill, but when cost is <$5 wouldn't be worth the time to make the project harder to get started
badlogic 1y ago
I have about 25 laying around idle. And I wrote a little C framework around ESP-IDF, which simplifies the software part. I was also sure the ESP32 can decode MP3s in real-time without a problem.

HenryBemis 1y ago

Definitely NOT going to build that. I haven't touched a soldering iron in 30-35 years, and don't plan to do so again. Perhaps after retirement (and with some massive magnifying lens) I was thinking to buy and make some cool 'ready-to-built-kits' with silly stuff I don't really _need_. But I do miss those days that I would blow a fuse because I made a mistake in the soldering.. heh.. good/fun days!

icoder 1y ago

Cool! I'm working on something comparable, but with the audio stored on a single SD and playback triggered using an RFID tag that we can than stick on wooden figures made by my GF (or anything 3D printed). I'm still iterating over hardware, realising Pi Zero is a bit of overkill, using too many NiMH batteries in series may actually break those batteries, that ESP8266 has much less GPIO's available than the module design suggests, among other lessons learned. My current approach is Pi Pico (ESP32 was the alternative) with a DfPlayer Mini and a 32GB SD card. The DfPlayer isn't too keen on running on 3v3 from cheaper LDO's (which are on the modules I'm using) so my current approach uses a small power bank. That just offloads the hard part (for me) of battery management to the professionals. This weekend I added a few resistors and a transistor to draw extra power (0.5secs every 20 seconds) to keep the power bank awake. But I have different LDO's and an ESP32 coming in, so it's not fully decided yet. Will for sure scan this thread and OP's article for more ideas!

neilv 1y ago

When 3D-printing toys for young children, are there any safety tips to know? (I'm wondering things like material toxicity, microplastics, teething hazards, swallow hazards, fracturing to sharp pieces, rounded corners, etc.)

badlogic 1y ago
I used PLA, which is a non toxic bio plastic. ABS is also an option for at-home 3D printing, which is the material used in lego bricks. At his age, he doesn't put anything in his mouth anymore, so swallow hazards were not a concern. That said, the only thing that's small enough for him to swallow are the buttons and the knob, which can not be detached from the device without unscrewing the enclosure. If he is able to do that, nothing is save.
- herbst 1y ago
  Pretty sure the issue with 3d printing materials is that they contain additional materials other than PLA and ABS for proper melting and flowage and those could indeed be an issue. I have some actually recyclable PLA but even that has no real no toxicity rating.
  - badlogic 1y ago
    That's good information, thanks!
lawn 1y ago
You should never put anything 3D printed into your mouth, regardless if you swallow it or not, because 3D prints aren't "food safe" and may release small pieces. Also, some materials are hazardous to print (ABS or resin for example) but fine when they've cooled down.
herbst 1y ago
Next to what others have said (pretty sure there are only very few PLAs who are even close to actual non toxic in terms of small traces of helper materials) but there are finishings you can use to make it food save! I wouldn't eat from it, but it works and would pretty much solve any issues. Pretty sure those finishing resins are marketing to finish Beton and stuff like that.

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Ai_Summary 1y ago

Great idea, so many proprietary and DRM locked solutions exist, all incompatible with each other. For power wouldn't an internally routed trace on the cartridge function better than the switch on a stick? the gold contact fingers could have been offset so it doesn't power up till fully inserted.

badlogic 1y ago
That's an excellent idea that didn't occur to me! If I build a new revision, I'll give that a try.

neuroelectron 1y ago

It's amazing what you can accomplish when abusing adhd meds.

dmd 1y ago

I had grand plans to build something like this when my kids were small, but ended up building this https://github.com/dmd/nkplay/ https://github.com/dmd/nkplay/ instead. It's just a rpi plugged into a standalone numeric keypad, acting as a jukebox. Playlists are numbered. By the time my kids were about three, they could enter the numbers on their own, and by four they had memorized the playlists so well they didn't look at the printed catalog any more.

badlogic 1y ago
I love this idea!
dukoid 1y ago
I wonder if one of the Anberinc (or similar) devices with single-purpose software would be an option for people shy of going into hardware...

fsckboy 1y ago

>I also need an IC to convert the I2S signal (currently sent to the MAX98357A) to a headphone output. I haven't researched options yet. The motherboard will need additional routing to send the I2S signal from the ESP32-S3 to both the MAX98357A and this new IC. Suggestions welcome! isn't a headphone just a high impedance speaker? you just grab the same output that goes to the speakers and reroute it through a big resistor to the headphones. did a little searching, here you go (the extra resistance isn't that great) https://samtechpro.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-to-use-speaker-output-for.html https://samtechpro.blogspot.com/2014/03/how-to-use-speaker-o... i suggest put efforts into stereo for speaker and headphones, more pleasing, and wouldn't stereo set the stage for truer brain development?

JansjoFromIkea 1y ago

I really like this, it looks great! Did you investigate using a MiniDisc player at any point? I could see a minidisc player with some kind of shell and a DIY inline remote working with relatively little. Never actually used one enough to know how much they'd withstand a kid though!

carpenecopinum 1y ago

Besides being a great project, this device reminds me a lot of the Technifant (https://technifant.de https://technifant.de) which, under the hood, is similarly simple. The "hats" that you put on the Technifant contain a cheap USB thumb drive with the contacts soldered to a magnetic connector. All the audio is stored locally on the hat itself, and you can even add your own MP3 files with a cable provided by the manufacturer.

sriacha 1y ago

Does anyone have suggestions for an simple audiobook/music player like this for the elderly and or those mild dementia? It should have large, tactile buttons, simple play/pause interface, volume control (ideally knob), and be able to read from sdcard or usb/ - I've used the Relish 'dementia radio' [1] before. Its a radio with support for reading from usb, but has no memory so useless for audiobooks. Very overpriced. - The 'National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled' has excellent cassette type players [2], but they only take their cartridges. Ideally something this format but supporting usb/sd card - Another comment [3] here suggests a smartphone with a macropad. this could work. they also built a custom solution. [1] https://relish-life.com/en-us/products/relish-radio https://relish-life.com/en-us/products/relish-radio [2] https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-tbbl-2.jpg https://blog.library.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/isl-t... [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43818639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43818639

juujian 1y ago
If there is enough material on Spotify, you could grab one of those mini-keyboards with 6 or nine buttons and remap them to play/pause, next, previos, and just leave it on shuffle on one playlist?
- sriacha 1y ago
  I think that might be the easiest, or even one with 3 buttons and volume knob.
tweetle_beetle 1y ago
A Yoto player might work. They're designed for children. They have two knobs (with momentary switch) to control everything (and a small on/off button). They're designed to be usable by children who cannot read, primarily through Yoto cards. These are just NFC type cards with with some kind of DRM. They allow your player to connect to an API, download the audio content (books, music) and store it locally for instant playback whenever the card is inserted. Normally I hate vendor lock in stuff like this. But surprisingly they also sell "blank" cards. Using the app you can load any audio content "onto" them (same deal - audio is sent to cloud so it can be redownloaded if local storage runs out). These are pretty cheap and can be "wiped" and reused as many times as you want and you can write on them or mark them up. You can even design a specific image to show on screen when your custom card is inserted. The hardware is good quality too and can survive daily life. https://yotoplay.com/ https://yotoplay.com/

schnable 1y ago

Any suggestions for someone who wants to get started on a similar but less ambitious project, ideally without any soldering? Ie, more software and breadboard-style wiring.

stavros 1y ago
You can get a DFPlayer module: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007061184507.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007061184507.html Connect a speaker, hook it up to an ESP32, then connect some buttons to it so you can select the track to play.

bigstrat2003 1y ago

This is really cool! I don't remotely have the skills to pull this off, so I am in awe of what you achieved here. The explanations were pretty clear even for someone such as myself, but I was confused by one thing. If the device is powered by NiMH AAA batteries, why include the charging circuit, rather than just removing the batteries when needed to put into a dedicated charger?

badlogic 1y ago
Because this way, I (or my SO) doesn't have to unscrew the enclosure to get at the batteries. Usually, the batteries die, while the boy is in the middle of an audiobook. This way, we simply plug in a USB-C cable and everything keeps going.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  That makes sense, thanks for the clarification!

bufferoverflow 1y ago

Could be simplified a lot by making SD cards as cartridges.

turblety 1y ago
I think the beauty of this is that it's big and clunky. An SD card takes quite coordinated motor skills to insert, can be quite flimsy and has to be inserted with an exact fit.
- delfinom 1y ago
  I think the real answer isn't motor skills.a 3 year old may eat a sd card. Lol

thih9 1y ago

Always offline is an underrated feature. Eg. my kindle is always offline, has been working great for the last 5+ years, I see no ads, upgrade prompts, UX changes, or slowdowns.

rideontime 1y ago

When he's older, you should blow his mind by putting DOOM back on it.

timcobb 1y ago

This is so cool, thanks so much for sharing this. Wow.

Dwedit 1y ago

Your "cartridge" could just as easily be a sheet of paper with a barcode/QR code printed on it.

bsdice 1y ago

His wife, chose wisely.

chromate 1y ago

I would love to do a project like this, but having toddlers around, how did he find the time to actually do this? These seems like hours and hours of learning and working (which I would love), but one of the things I miss most after having kids is having time for hobbies like this.

badlogic 1y ago
Instead of watching Netflix/YouTube/whatever or spending time on social media, I used 1-3 hours every night to learn and create.

rsync 1y ago

We needed this device and satisfied that need with a Sony Walkman: https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders/walkman-mp3-players/p/nwe394-b https://electronics.sony.com/audio/walkman-digital-recorders... Very simple. Shows up as a USB drive and I copy mp3 files to it. My son likes to listen to audiobooks so we purchase them at the maximum price possible and then download them from bittorrent.

butlike 1y ago

This is potentially a sell-able product

salomonk_mur 1y ago
It is. It exists. Many brands are discussed in the thread.

qq66 1y ago

If anyone wants this product but lacks these skills, I’ve been happy with the Hörbert. Expensive but very high quality.

perilunar 1y ago

My kids were little back when the original iPod came out. They were unable to use it because they couldn't read yet, and the early iPods had a text-only interface. But they were very capable using cassette players. The could identify different tapes by the images on the labels and cases, and were able to manipulate the tapes and controls easily. Also, cassette players are cheap and robust. So as cool as this project is, it's overkill. An old cassette player and a bunch of tapes would have worked just as well. (and when they get older they can graduate to CDs or vinyl !)

lproven 1y ago

We bought our 2YO a second-hand kiddie CD player, with 2 built-in karaoke microphones, and she loved it. Three years later, she still plays with it sometimes. William of Ockham had much to teach the 21st century “maker” community.

urbantrout 1y ago

I just went with a Tonie Box and hacked it with the help of [teddycloud](https://github.com/toniebox-reverse-engineering/teddycloud/ https://github.com/toniebox-reverse-engineering/teddycloud/) So there is no more need to buy expensive Tonie figurines. Instead I can use cheap RFID chips and pair them with any content. This project is very impressive though!

safasfdass 1y ago

While this is a neat project, the design is very strange. Most of the complexity seems to be a result of using the wrong components for the job. Having a huge PCB for an SD card is completely unnecessary. Also using enig for mechanically stressed contacts seems to come from a wrong understanding of why one would use enig. enig is for corrosion resistance, not mechanical resistance. Just use an rfid tag to read out the cartridge put into the console

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