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Germany already has a pretty good charging network, yet EV adoption is very slow. This will not change much. Charging infrastructure is only a small part of ma

Germany already has a pretty good charging network, yet EV adoption is very slow. This will not change much. Charging infrastructure is only a small part of making EVs appealing, although it is obviously a necessary prerequisite.

manmal 1y ago
EV prices are just way too high. As a father of three, I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. There are some other, cheaper, EV models with 7+ seats (40k+), but they charge so slow and need so much power in winter, you‘d get max 200km out of them and then need to charge 1h. Generally, most EVs you can buy in the EU are just 10-20k more expensive than their ICE counterparts, and incentive programs don’t make up for that difference.
- constantcrying 1y ago
  >I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. I assume you are talking about the family van 2 series? And not the sporty 2 door 2 series. (Why didn't you buy a Touran?) You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. >EV prices are just way too high. Sure.
  - manmal 1y ago
    The Touran is quite a bit pricier than the 2er Grand Tourer, not sure why you are bringing it up. It’s an expensive car. > You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. I don’t care if the car is used or new tbh, I need 7 seats. I get that that’s not a super common situation, and that the comparison is unfair. The 2er was 40k when new. The thing is, there‘s basically no usable used 7 seater EVs in the non-crazy price range.
- thebruce87m 1y ago
  > a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k A used lower end model from one manufacturer vs a new high end model from a different one doesn’t seem like a fair comparison.
  - manmal 1y ago
    I only had this choice though, because the EV family van market has been underserved from the start, and there are no usable used EVs that qualify. I know it’s an unfair comparison, but a pragmatic one.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  I don't get the false equivalence. You are comparing compact car vs 7 seater. Besides 7 seaters are only must for families with 4 kids, AKA less than 10% of households. I have both - decent sized EV and an old 7 seater. I'd never want to take it for a road trip as EV is just far more comfortable and easier to drive (autopilot 90%+). Its sole purpose is to deal with family visits and when I need to tow something like twice a year.
pkulak 1y ago
Very true. My first EV went about 80 miles, in the summer. Fast charging was the name of game! It was the difference between the trip being possible or not. Now I have a car that can go 350+ miles in the summer (280-300 in the winter) and I basically never fast charge it. I guess we don't "road trip" much, but we do drive around our state quite a bit, and 300 miles is just so much range. We went to the coast last weekend, my son asked how the charging was, and I replied that I hadn't bothered to look because it wasn't at all needed. It almost takes the fun out of it.
dzhiurgis 1y ago
All because VW ID series flopped due to awful software while keeping pretty high cost when compared to competition (and Germans generally buy German cars).
- constantcrying 1y ago
  Germany has 3 automotive groups. The IDs didn't flop just because of software, it was also uncompetitive in price and looked hideous. The IDs right now are also selling quite well, with VW Brand leading the manufacturer charts.

manmal 1y ago

EV prices are just way too high. As a father of three, I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. There are some other, cheaper, EV models with 7+ seats (40k+), but they charge so slow and need so much power in winter, you‘d get max 200km out of them and then need to charge 1h. Generally, most EVs you can buy in the EU are just 10-20k more expensive than their ICE counterparts, and incentive programs don’t make up for that difference.

constantcrying 1y ago
>I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. I assume you are talking about the family van 2 series? And not the sporty 2 door 2 series. (Why didn't you buy a Touran?) You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. >EV prices are just way too high. Sure.
- manmal 1y ago
  The Touran is quite a bit pricier than the 2er Grand Tourer, not sure why you are bringing it up. It’s an expensive car. > You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. I don’t care if the car is used or new tbh, I need 7 seats. I get that that’s not a super common situation, and that the comparison is unfair. The 2er was 40k when new. The thing is, there‘s basically no usable used 7 seater EVs in the non-crazy price range.
thebruce87m 1y ago
> a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k A used lower end model from one manufacturer vs a new high end model from a different one doesn’t seem like a fair comparison.
- manmal 1y ago
  I only had this choice though, because the EV family van market has been underserved from the start, and there are no usable used EVs that qualify. I know it’s an unfair comparison, but a pragmatic one.
dzhiurgis 1y ago
I don't get the false equivalence. You are comparing compact car vs 7 seater. Besides 7 seaters are only must for families with 4 kids, AKA less than 10% of households. I have both - decent sized EV and an old 7 seater. I'd never want to take it for a road trip as EV is just far more comfortable and easier to drive (autopilot 90%+). Its sole purpose is to deal with family visits and when I need to tow something like twice a year.

pkulak 1y ago

Very true. My first EV went about 80 miles, in the summer. Fast charging was the name of game! It was the difference between the trip being possible or not. Now I have a car that can go 350+ miles in the summer (280-300 in the winter) and I basically never fast charge it. I guess we don't "road trip" much, but we do drive around our state quite a bit, and 300 miles is just so much range. We went to the coast last weekend, my son asked how the charging was, and I replied that I hadn't bothered to look because it wasn't at all needed. It almost takes the fun out of it.

dzhiurgis 1y ago

All because VW ID series flopped due to awful software while keeping pretty high cost when compared to competition (and Germans generally buy German cars).

constantcrying 1y ago
Germany has 3 automotive groups. The IDs didn't flop just because of software, it was also uncompetitive in price and looked hideous. The IDs right now are also selling quite well, with VW Brand leading the manufacturer charts.