2 ms·

The fact of you describing the situation was itself an attempt to make the alternatives look worse.

hagbard_c 2y ago
The alternative chosen by Borrr is worse. The ones chosen by Ooglr and Gnurgh are examples of two types of work-leisure balances, neither of which are 'better' or 'worse'. Sometimes you don't need lengthy discussions or focus groups or studies to decide a given alternative - in this case stealing and raping - is worse. The article which started this discussion is rather pointless, all it shows is that governments can influence wealth distribution. This was clear from the get-go, no study needed. The position taken - that inequality is not inevitable - is also meaningless since it does not provide any idea on whether the alternative to inequality is beneficial over 'natural' inequality. If you know the song 'The Trees' by the Canadian band Rush you might understand what I mean, if not I'll provide an excerpt from the lyrics which shows an example of a form of equality which is worse for all involved except those enforcing the equality: So the maples formed a union And demanded equal rights “The oaks are just too greedy We will make them give us light” Now there's no more oak oppression For they passed a noble law And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet, axe and saw Who wins? Those wielding the hatchet, axe and saw. Who loses? The trees, i.e. the constituents. Great song BTW.
- immibis 2y ago
  "The alternatives" refers to alternative ways to structure society, not alternative individual choices within the same societal structure.
  - hagbard_c 2y ago
    That does not make sense as I'm not describing any way to structure society here, instead I'm describing individual choices within any given society. Some of those choices won't be available in some types of society - e.g. Gnurgh won't be welcome in proto-North-Korea - but that is besides the point. I'm pointing out that people make choices and those choices have consequences. Ooglr will end up 'wealthy' when it comes to free time, Gnurgh ends up wealthy when it comes to food and family, Borrr could end up wealthy as well depending on his prowess in raiding those drying racks but he won't be welcomed by the others.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Thanks for verifying you weren't responding to anything anyone actually said, then. Great conversation.

The alternative chosen by Borrr is worse. The ones chosen by Ooglr and Gnurgh are examples of two types of work-leisure balances, neither of which are 'better' or 'worse'. Sometimes you don't need lengthy discussions or focus groups or studies to decide a given alternative - in this case stealing and raping - is worse. The article which started this discussion is rather pointless, all it shows is that governments can influence wealth distribution. This was clear from the get-go, no study needed. The position taken - that inequality is not inevitable - is also meaningless since it does not provide any idea on whether the alternative to inequality is beneficial over 'natural' inequality. If you know the song 'The Trees' by the Canadian band Rush you might understand what I mean, if not I'll provide an excerpt from the lyrics which shows an example of a form of equality which is worse for all involved except those enforcing the equality: So the maples formed a union And demanded equal rights “The oaks are just too greedy We will make them give us light” Now there's no more oak oppression For they passed a noble law And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet, axe and saw Who wins? Those wielding the hatchet, axe and saw. Who loses? The trees, i.e. the constituents. Great song BTW.

immibis 2y ago
"The alternatives" refers to alternative ways to structure society, not alternative individual choices within the same societal structure.
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  That does not make sense as I'm not describing any way to structure society here, instead I'm describing individual choices within any given society. Some of those choices won't be available in some types of society - e.g. Gnurgh won't be welcome in proto-North-Korea - but that is besides the point. I'm pointing out that people make choices and those choices have consequences. Ooglr will end up 'wealthy' when it comes to free time, Gnurgh ends up wealthy when it comes to food and family, Borrr could end up wealthy as well depending on his prowess in raiding those drying racks but he won't be welcomed by the others.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Thanks for verifying you weren't responding to anything anyone actually said, then. Great conversation.