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But... so many people are practically forced to exceed the limit just to keep up with the rest of the traffic that's already blowing past the limit. If you forc

But... so many people are practically forced to exceed the limit just to keep up with the rest of the traffic that's already blowing past the limit. If you force a few people to go at the limit, that's frustrating for everyone behind them in the best case at best... and I imagine possibly even more dangerous in the worst case, no? If they're going to enforce then shouldn't they try to enforce it as widely as they can?

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> that's frustrating for everyone behind them in the best case at best... and I imagine possibly even more dangerous in the worst case, no? No. Waymo put the myth to bed [1]. Even if you might piss off a speeder, driving the limit in speeding flow remains safer as the handling advantage (frequency) and exponentially-lower energy in the event of a collision (magnitude) dwarf other effects. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/new-swiss-re-study-waymo https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/new-swiss-re-study-waymo
- dataflow 1y ago
  Your link is about Waymo. It doesn't imply the same is true for human drivers. When I search around whether driving too slowly is too dangerous, basically every source I see says it is. Random example: https://www.allstate.com/resources/car-insurance/dangers-of-driving-slowly https://www.allstate.com/resources/car-insurance/dangers-of-... Anecdotally, I see people dangerously tailgate slow drivers too; it makes sense that everyone warns against slow driving.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    if slow driving wasn’t as dangerous (if not more), highways would not have minimum speed. would you personally choose cars driving 15mph on a highway you are on or 90mph? between those two choices, I’d choose 90mph any day of the week and twice on sunday
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      You must live somewhere warm. On Canadian highways 15 mph is just a fact of life a few times a year. I've never seen a Canadian highway with a minimum speed.
      - bdangubic 1y ago
        Of course! I did not mean that anyone should ever drive any speed that is too slow for given conditions, I have driven 5-10mph on higways with minimum speed of 45+mph during inclement weather. I live in the USA and can tell you with 100% certainty that if I drove 15mph on a highway drivers that pass me will call 911 and I will be pulled over. driving 30-40mph over the limit is unlikely to trigger the same concern from other drivers unless I am “street racing” other cars or driving erradicaly
  - tintor 1y ago
    Physics works the same whether you are Waymo or human.
    - dataflow 1y ago
      What? Reaction times and situational awareness definitely don't...
- yes_really 1y ago
  How is the energy "exponentially lower"? Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the speed.
usefulcat 1y ago
No. No one is 'forced' to exceed the limit, not remotely, and there are plenty of drivers who, for a variety of reasons, drive at or under the speed limit (many large trucks, for example). On a highway, driving slow in the left lane is not good, but doing 65 in a 70 in the right lane is perfectly fine.
- aftbit 1y ago
  You need to be glued to the right lane though, or be willing to speed while passing even slower traffic, or you will definitely mess up the flow.
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    What really messes up flow is traffic "waves"[1] and these are often caused by drivers hitting the brakes because they're following too closely or someone cuts in front of them aggressively. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave
    - usefulcat 1y ago
      Yes. Once I realized this, I tried to put a higher priority on maintaining a more steady average speed, even though that usually means leaving a larger gap ahead of me. Of course, the problem then becomes that people will often use that gap to cut in front of you, thus negating much of the benefit. Tragedy of the commons.
      - AlexandrB 1y ago
        I blame automatic transmissions. Stop and go traffic is hell in a manual, so there's a bigger incentive to maintain a constant slow speed instead of zooming forward then slamming the brakes.
    - aftbit 1y ago
      Yep - follow distance makes a huge difference in both safety and traffic flow. If you can leave 20 cars in front of you, do it. You get there just as fast but have more time to react and don't need to hit your brakes as often.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> that's frustrating for everyone behind them in the best case at best... and I imagine possibly even more dangerous in the worst case, no? No. Waymo put the myth to bed [1]. Even if you might piss off a speeder, driving the limit in speeding flow remains safer as the handling advantage (frequency) and exponentially-lower energy in the event of a collision (magnitude) dwarf other effects. [1] https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/new-swiss-re-study-waymo https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/new-swiss-re-study-waymo

dataflow 1y ago
Your link is about Waymo. It doesn't imply the same is true for human drivers. When I search around whether driving too slowly is too dangerous, basically every source I see says it is. Random example: https://www.allstate.com/resources/car-insurance/dangers-of-driving-slowly https://www.allstate.com/resources/car-insurance/dangers-of-... Anecdotally, I see people dangerously tailgate slow drivers too; it makes sense that everyone warns against slow driving.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  if slow driving wasn’t as dangerous (if not more), highways would not have minimum speed. would you personally choose cars driving 15mph on a highway you are on or 90mph? between those two choices, I’d choose 90mph any day of the week and twice on sunday
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    You must live somewhere warm. On Canadian highways 15 mph is just a fact of life a few times a year. I've never seen a Canadian highway with a minimum speed.
    - bdangubic 1y ago
      Of course! I did not mean that anyone should ever drive any speed that is too slow for given conditions, I have driven 5-10mph on higways with minimum speed of 45+mph during inclement weather. I live in the USA and can tell you with 100% certainty that if I drove 15mph on a highway drivers that pass me will call 911 and I will be pulled over. driving 30-40mph over the limit is unlikely to trigger the same concern from other drivers unless I am “street racing” other cars or driving erradicaly
- tintor 1y ago
  Physics works the same whether you are Waymo or human.
  - dataflow 1y ago
    What? Reaction times and situational awareness definitely don't...
yes_really 1y ago
How is the energy "exponentially lower"? Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the speed.

usefulcat 1y ago

No. No one is 'forced' to exceed the limit, not remotely, and there are plenty of drivers who, for a variety of reasons, drive at or under the speed limit (many large trucks, for example). On a highway, driving slow in the left lane is not good, but doing 65 in a 70 in the right lane is perfectly fine.

aftbit 1y ago
You need to be glued to the right lane though, or be willing to speed while passing even slower traffic, or you will definitely mess up the flow.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  What really messes up flow is traffic "waves"[1] and these are often caused by drivers hitting the brakes because they're following too closely or someone cuts in front of them aggressively. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave
  - usefulcat 1y ago
    Yes. Once I realized this, I tried to put a higher priority on maintaining a more steady average speed, even though that usually means leaving a larger gap ahead of me. Of course, the problem then becomes that people will often use that gap to cut in front of you, thus negating much of the benefit. Tragedy of the commons.
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      I blame automatic transmissions. Stop and go traffic is hell in a manual, so there's a bigger incentive to maintain a constant slow speed instead of zooming forward then slamming the brakes.
  - aftbit 1y ago
    Yep - follow distance makes a huge difference in both safety and traffic flow. If you can leave 20 cars in front of you, do it. You get there just as fast but have more time to react and don't need to hit your brakes as often.