3 ms·

Define grim? Surging stock market, reduced inflation? 4% of the global population producing 75% of Nobel prizes ( half of which are immigrants), robust high tec

Define grim? Surging stock market, reduced inflation? 4% of the global population producing 75% of Nobel prizes ( half of which are immigrants), robust high tech manufacturing? Robust agriculture that was recovered from the first round of tariffs? Increased housing stock stabilizing prices? The Chips act and infrastructure bill that would have accelerated strategic manufacturing growth? Clean energy investments that would have given us more power for AI.

remarkEon 1y ago
These are all things that sound great to a religious listener of Ezra Klein’s podcast but normal people either don’t know about them, don’t care about them, or disagree with them.
- thephyber 1y ago
  I don’t think we should make policy specifically to cater to the part of a voting constituency (the willingly ignorant) who doesn’t know about the factual benefits of a large incoming immigration policy. Policy should be made to cater to factual objective reality, not to make people feel better. Ezra Klein isn’t for the unwashed masses. He’s not even interesting to the average Democrat. His content is specifically for people who care about boring facts and policy. Obviously MMA and WWE fans and crude comedian fans will respond more to show of force, peacocking, and loud brash speeches. These things are vapid when it comes to politics. They only serve to elect Dark Triad figures, not good policy makers. The problem with immigration is that we need it (just to maintain replacement rates and economic growth), but the average American voter says they don’t want it. Also worth pointing out that it’s likely that Democrats didn’t move on securing the border earlier in Biden’s term because all of the people criticizing Biden’s immigration policy were crying wolf for years or decades before it actually became a huge problem.
  - remarkEon 1y ago
    Well, I agree with you (sort of), but democracy lacks a solution for this problem (ignorant people existing and voting). Unless you are going to give everyone an IQ test before they register to vote or some other means to test some "eligibility" dimension it doesn't seem solvable, since those options are non-starters in western democracies. >The problem with immigration is that we need it (just to maintain replacement rates and economic growth), but the average American voter says they don’t want it. What would be helpful here is if people who state this so plainly as a matter of fact actually took the time to interrogate why they think that way. I don't think this statement is true, quite the opposite. You are sort of hinting at the real problem in your parenthetical, not sure if you were intentional in that regard. One should probably determine why the birthrate in a particular nation is below replacement before concluding that the only solution is "infinity immigration". Moreover, economic growth is not the end-all-be-all of a country, since these are places with history and a people in them and not a "special economic zone" there the only reason anyone lives there is to conduct economic activity.
    - digitaltrees 1y ago
      Representative democracy seeks to solve this by electing people that are trustworthy and knowledgeable. The problem is one of our parties is broken
  - digitaltrees 1y ago
    Why is immigration a huge problem. Name one negative effect that actually impacts anyone or anything meaningful.
    - peterbecich 1y ago
      The mass asylum policy of Biden's term contributed in a significant way to this negative effect: Trump's re-election
  - peterbecich 1y ago
    > I don’t think we should make policy specifically to cater to the part of a voting constituency (the willingly ignorant) The voters are free to vote for whoever they want for any reason. The burden is on the candidates to win them over.
- digitaltrees 1y ago
  Facts have a bias. Don’t have a counter argument?
  - remarkEon 1y ago
    Counter argument to what? You posted a list of things that look like a copy/pasta from last year's campaign trail. Unrelated to my point, only true at the margins.
    - digitaltrees 1y ago
      You’re approaching bad faith. Was the stock market at historic highs. Yes Was inflation falling and the lowest in the OECD. Yes I am not going to go point by point. And they aren’t “true at the margins” when taken together as a whole. They are a manifestation of a broad policy that created improved conditions in the country that would have continued. And the CHIPS act was the exact policy to set us in the course for how the world will be over the next 30 years rather than what it was 60 years ago.
      - remarkEon 1y ago
        Eh, I think you're mostly arguing with a strawman, and want to make points that have nothing to do with what is being discussed.
        digitaltrees 1y ago
        [flagged]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

remarkEon 1y ago

These are all things that sound great to a religious listener of Ezra Klein’s podcast but normal people either don’t know about them, don’t care about them, or disagree with them.

thephyber 1y ago
I don’t think we should make policy specifically to cater to the part of a voting constituency (the willingly ignorant) who doesn’t know about the factual benefits of a large incoming immigration policy. Policy should be made to cater to factual objective reality, not to make people feel better. Ezra Klein isn’t for the unwashed masses. He’s not even interesting to the average Democrat. His content is specifically for people who care about boring facts and policy. Obviously MMA and WWE fans and crude comedian fans will respond more to show of force, peacocking, and loud brash speeches. These things are vapid when it comes to politics. They only serve to elect Dark Triad figures, not good policy makers. The problem with immigration is that we need it (just to maintain replacement rates and economic growth), but the average American voter says they don’t want it. Also worth pointing out that it’s likely that Democrats didn’t move on securing the border earlier in Biden’s term because all of the people criticizing Biden’s immigration policy were crying wolf for years or decades before it actually became a huge problem.
- remarkEon 1y ago
  Well, I agree with you (sort of), but democracy lacks a solution for this problem (ignorant people existing and voting). Unless you are going to give everyone an IQ test before they register to vote or some other means to test some "eligibility" dimension it doesn't seem solvable, since those options are non-starters in western democracies. >The problem with immigration is that we need it (just to maintain replacement rates and economic growth), but the average American voter says they don’t want it. What would be helpful here is if people who state this so plainly as a matter of fact actually took the time to interrogate why they think that way. I don't think this statement is true, quite the opposite. You are sort of hinting at the real problem in your parenthetical, not sure if you were intentional in that regard. One should probably determine why the birthrate in a particular nation is below replacement before concluding that the only solution is "infinity immigration". Moreover, economic growth is not the end-all-be-all of a country, since these are places with history and a people in them and not a "special economic zone" there the only reason anyone lives there is to conduct economic activity.
  - digitaltrees 1y ago
    Representative democracy seeks to solve this by electing people that are trustworthy and knowledgeable. The problem is one of our parties is broken
- digitaltrees 1y ago
  Why is immigration a huge problem. Name one negative effect that actually impacts anyone or anything meaningful.
  - peterbecich 1y ago
    The mass asylum policy of Biden's term contributed in a significant way to this negative effect: Trump's re-election
- peterbecich 1y ago
  > I don’t think we should make policy specifically to cater to the part of a voting constituency (the willingly ignorant) The voters are free to vote for whoever they want for any reason. The burden is on the candidates to win them over.
digitaltrees 1y ago
Facts have a bias. Don’t have a counter argument?
- remarkEon 1y ago
  Counter argument to what? You posted a list of things that look like a copy/pasta from last year's campaign trail. Unrelated to my point, only true at the margins.
  - digitaltrees 1y ago
    You’re approaching bad faith. Was the stock market at historic highs. Yes Was inflation falling and the lowest in the OECD. Yes I am not going to go point by point. And they aren’t “true at the margins” when taken together as a whole. They are a manifestation of a broad policy that created improved conditions in the country that would have continued. And the CHIPS act was the exact policy to set us in the course for how the world will be over the next 30 years rather than what it was 60 years ago.
    - remarkEon 1y ago
      Eh, I think you're mostly arguing with a strawman, and want to make points that have nothing to do with what is being discussed.
      - digitaltrees 1y ago
        [flagged]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]