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The real gap is "the economy" vs "living standards". For example, quality adjustments for inflation stats are so bad as to make comparison over long periods mea

The real gap is "the economy" vs "living standards". For example, quality adjustments for inflation stats are so bad as to make comparison over long periods meaningless (a few years ago, the ONS had to retract decades of inflation data due to poor quality adjustments...and this was for components where quality adjustments are quantifiable). One of the reasons why is because you can clearly see that life today in most rich economies has plummeted in quality. Technology has spilled over from the US but if you take away those gains, there is very little underlying improvement. Skills are collapsing, governments/companies struggle to provide basic services, disability is skyrocketing, it is a complete mess (and this is often linked to "the economy", look at Canada, look at the UK, set on paths of permanent decline for short-term political gain).

Avicebron 1y ago
This probably exists or maybe it's impossible to measure. But is there a widely adopted quality of life index? Or "fulfillment index"? Like if someone is commuting an hour working full time in a LCOL area and can't afford a house, that would be scored lower than if someone is working remotely for a huge salary from a various resorts around the world, which would be a higher score.
- skippyboxedhero 1y ago
  You don't need an index. Are the people in your country happy or not? Are they having children? Are they participating in civic society? Crime? Signs of social unrest? There is an issue with people being systemically negative but it is very obvious which countries are thriving at a high-level from aggregate behaviour. The problem is that some societies (unsurprisingly the ones that have a problem in this area) do not want confront this. So you have countries where the economy is collapsing, it is obvious to everyone...and they are getting economic policies from corporate lobbyists...to fix "the economy". I think this is getting at the spirit of the OP's point, most people who talk about "the economy" just have a very short-term, very self-interested take.
  - pbh101 1y ago
    Measuring what you described in aggregate is an index.
    - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
      No, it isn't. An index is a quantifiable measure. I said the behaviour of people in the aggregate, not measuring the behaviour of people in the aggregate. How do you measure civic participation? Why would you even try? It is genuinely baffling to me that people view quantification as an end in itself when any understanding of human behaviour tells you that a huge proportion of the population just shut their brain off when a number appears (that is the point made in the original post, we have this problem with "the economy" that leads to people making such bad policy choices because of this mindset).
      - pbh101 1y ago
        Quantification is not an end in itself. I can think of many ways to measure civic participation and reasons I might want to, especially if I think it is healthy for society and wanted to encourage more of it.
        skippyboxedhero 1y ago
        As I said, this is the issue. "The economy" is a direct consequence of people thinking that everything can be quantified. It is so shallow until you realise that this thinking is pervasive in government, and explains why "line goes up" whilst everything valuable is collapsing is so prevalent. In other words, to explain why basic societal functions are collapsing whilst you have people saying things have never been so good requires an extremely reductive mode of thought.
        pbh101 1y ago
        My takeaway from this is you do not know what ‘quantify’ means and are bundling a whole lot of connotation into it.
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
This. My boss had the nerve to tell me inflation is not a valid reason for a discussion of raises all the while company ( and its upper management ) had a rather good year and did not hesitate to reward themselves accordingly. Surely, previous year's bonuses would have sufficed. Honestly, it is a public company. Do they think we don't read quarterly results that they themselves publish? I am effectively being paid less and the expectation is that I somehow work more. In fact, and this is genuinely the part that gets me more than anything else, when I mentioned it to my extended family during a social function, the response was: "can't you work on a train?". I don't get it man. Is it some sort of weird generational gap? What gives?

Avicebron 1y ago

This probably exists or maybe it's impossible to measure. But is there a widely adopted quality of life index? Or "fulfillment index"? Like if someone is commuting an hour working full time in a LCOL area and can't afford a house, that would be scored lower than if someone is working remotely for a huge salary from a various resorts around the world, which would be a higher score.

skippyboxedhero 1y ago
You don't need an index. Are the people in your country happy or not? Are they having children? Are they participating in civic society? Crime? Signs of social unrest? There is an issue with people being systemically negative but it is very obvious which countries are thriving at a high-level from aggregate behaviour. The problem is that some societies (unsurprisingly the ones that have a problem in this area) do not want confront this. So you have countries where the economy is collapsing, it is obvious to everyone...and they are getting economic policies from corporate lobbyists...to fix "the economy". I think this is getting at the spirit of the OP's point, most people who talk about "the economy" just have a very short-term, very self-interested take.
- pbh101 1y ago
  Measuring what you described in aggregate is an index.
  - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
    No, it isn't. An index is a quantifiable measure. I said the behaviour of people in the aggregate, not measuring the behaviour of people in the aggregate. How do you measure civic participation? Why would you even try? It is genuinely baffling to me that people view quantification as an end in itself when any understanding of human behaviour tells you that a huge proportion of the population just shut their brain off when a number appears (that is the point made in the original post, we have this problem with "the economy" that leads to people making such bad policy choices because of this mindset).
    - pbh101 1y ago
      Quantification is not an end in itself. I can think of many ways to measure civic participation and reasons I might want to, especially if I think it is healthy for society and wanted to encourage more of it.
      - skippyboxedhero 1y ago
        As I said, this is the issue. "The economy" is a direct consequence of people thinking that everything can be quantified. It is so shallow until you realise that this thinking is pervasive in government, and explains why "line goes up" whilst everything valuable is collapsing is so prevalent. In other words, to explain why basic societal functions are collapsing whilst you have people saying things have never been so good requires an extremely reductive mode of thought.
        pbh101 1y ago
        My takeaway from this is you do not know what ‘quantify’ means and are bundling a whole lot of connotation into it.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago

This. My boss had the nerve to tell me inflation is not a valid reason for a discussion of raises all the while company ( and its upper management ) had a rather good year and did not hesitate to reward themselves accordingly. Surely, previous year's bonuses would have sufficed. Honestly, it is a public company. Do they think we don't read quarterly results that they themselves publish? I am effectively being paid less and the expectation is that I somehow work more. In fact, and this is genuinely the part that gets me more than anything else, when I mentioned it to my extended family during a social function, the response was: "can't you work on a train?". I don't get it man. Is it some sort of weird generational gap? What gives?