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Sue the university on the grounds that this was a reasonably foreseeable event with proven solutions, i.e. properly proctored, in-person testing. "We're too che

Sue the university on the grounds that this was a reasonably foreseeable event with proven solutions, i.e. properly proctored, in-person testing. "We're too cheap to do it" isn't an excuse.

vlovich123 2y ago
The competitions are very useful both in terms of providing students the ability to demonstrate ability that isn't visible within a school curriculum (these students are way more advanced) and motivating the students with something to work towards & train on. I have done this competition (I think) and what your suggesting just is not reasonable. This is a distributed competition administered locally on a volunteer basis. This isn't some formalized test & trying to get Waterloo to pay for all the local proctors would result in this competition shutting down which would be net not good. I don't have insight into how the competition has changed in the 20 years since I took it so I don't know why they don't have local proctors or lost faith in them. Maybe COVID-era adaptations? Honestly, I think the better solution is to adjust the difficulty to be AI-proof but it may be hard to do so at this level of academia.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  If it can't work as is, and it can't work in a way that removes cheating (which the university feels invalidates the results for all participants) then it can't work. Getting a load of students to prepare and participate only to pull the rug out from under them isn't acceptable. That's a waste of their limited time and energy during a critical period of their lives.
gpm 2y ago
What percentage of the $10 (CAD, tax free) entrance fee do you think the court should award in damages?
- EA-3167 2y ago
  You're describing one small part of the family of damages (in the legal sense), and that isn't how common law works. To draw from the rich vocabulary of HN, think of the opportunity cost imposed by the time wasted on preparation and the test itself, that also has value beyond the entrance fee. Putting that aside, you don't just sue for money, you can sue for different outcomes and injunctive relief. For example you could sue to have the results released as planned.
  - gpm 2y ago
    Under common law courts don't award speculative damages - i.e. opportunity cost. If you had concrete damages, like you bought a computer just to participate in this contest, you might theoretically have a claim for the cost of the computer... that's simply not realistically the case though. Injunctive relief for not publishing known to be incorrect test rankings? Not likely. A FOI request might get you access to the rankings if you really cared... I'm not quite sure what the contours of FIPPA (roughly equivalent to America's FOIA) is with regards to our universities but I believe it generally applies to them. At the same time it could easily fall within privacy limitations.
    - LorenzoGood 2y ago
      I belive you can FOI things me your AIF score.

Sue the university on the grounds that this was a reasonably foreseeable event with proven solutions, i.e. properly proctored, in-person testing. "We're too cheap to do it" isn't an excuse.

vlovich123 2y ago

The competitions are very useful both in terms of providing students the ability to demonstrate ability that isn't visible within a school curriculum (these students are way more advanced) and motivating the students with something to work towards & train on. I have done this competition (I think) and what your suggesting just is not reasonable. This is a distributed competition administered locally on a volunteer basis. This isn't some formalized test & trying to get Waterloo to pay for all the local proctors would result in this competition shutting down which would be net not good. I don't have insight into how the competition has changed in the 20 years since I took it so I don't know why they don't have local proctors or lost faith in them. Maybe COVID-era adaptations? Honestly, I think the better solution is to adjust the difficulty to be AI-proof but it may be hard to do so at this level of academia.

EA-3167 2y ago
If it can't work as is, and it can't work in a way that removes cheating (which the university feels invalidates the results for all participants) then it can't work. Getting a load of students to prepare and participate only to pull the rug out from under them isn't acceptable. That's a waste of their limited time and energy during a critical period of their lives.

gpm 2y ago

What percentage of the $10 (CAD, tax free) entrance fee do you think the court should award in damages?

EA-3167 2y ago
You're describing one small part of the family of damages (in the legal sense), and that isn't how common law works. To draw from the rich vocabulary of HN, think of the opportunity cost imposed by the time wasted on preparation and the test itself, that also has value beyond the entrance fee. Putting that aside, you don't just sue for money, you can sue for different outcomes and injunctive relief. For example you could sue to have the results released as planned.
- gpm 2y ago
  Under common law courts don't award speculative damages - i.e. opportunity cost. If you had concrete damages, like you bought a computer just to participate in this contest, you might theoretically have a claim for the cost of the computer... that's simply not realistically the case though. Injunctive relief for not publishing known to be incorrect test rankings? Not likely. A FOI request might get you access to the rankings if you really cared... I'm not quite sure what the contours of FIPPA (roughly equivalent to America's FOIA) is with regards to our universities but I believe it generally applies to them. At the same time it could easily fall within privacy limitations.
  - LorenzoGood 2y ago
    I belive you can FOI things me your AIF score.