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C-f "citizenship"—55 results C-f "metastatic cancer"—1 There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the

C-f "citizenship"—55 results C-f "metastatic cancer"—1 There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. What good can we be, if *this* result is the sum total of our good intentions?

freen 2y ago
The purpose of a system is exactly what it does. This IS the point, the goal, and the purpose.
mindslight 2y ago
The assumption of "good intentions" is not really warranted at this point. This movement is mainly driven by people who feel they have been marginalized by our society, and they want to lash out and see other people get hurt, period. Regardless of the ways they have been marginalized, and how much marginalization they have done to themselves by failing to engage with the complexity of the world and following malicious leaders instead, this is where we are at. We need to stare this bare reality in the face lest the supporters, enablers, and fence-sitters continue soothing themselves with rationalizations.
- worik 2y ago
  > This movement is mainly driven by people who feel they have been marginalized by our society, and they want to lash out and see other people get hurt, Yes. This. This is what drives facism: It is not your fault you feel bad, it's them, over there This is why it is so important to "cuddle a facist". Facism feeds on violence, showing love and compassion to those whom you disagree with robs fascism of its oxygen
  - heavyset_go 2y ago
    Fascists think your love and compassion are foolish weaknesses that should be mocked.
watwut 2y ago
Not all of those adults have good intentions. In fact, situation happened because of adults who have bad intentions, managed to execute them and are happy about the result. And they have been giving benefit of the doubt too many times already. At this point, it is absurd to pretend there are good intentions in the core of this.
slg 2y ago
>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership and systems, but every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. Even if you agree with the general motivations and principles behind these, do you not have the humanity to realize the absurdity and cruelness of what is being done in some of these examples? No special accommodation can be made to get the kid with cancer their medicine while they are in custody? I genuinely don't know how those questions can be answered any other way than "cruelty is the point" and if that is your response, I don't know how you sleep at night.
- low_tech_love 2y ago
  Every individual involved in this is doing it because there is something to be gained. The system is basically saying “the more you deport, the more numbers you generate, the more funding you get and the less I will check what you do with it”. We can blame the individuals sure, but if they keep getting showered with money for doing the wrong thing, of course the system has a big responsibility. Why should the people involved not do this if they are being explicitly encouraged by their employer to do it?
  - int_19h 2y ago
    Based on some interactions I have had with CBP and ICE in the past as a legal immigrant, I'm confident that many of those people aren't doing it because of any sort of monetary gain or career advancement, but simply because it gives them an outlet to realize their sadistic tendencies. And because is tolerated and even encouraged, these jobs attract exactly those kinds of people. Which is how you end up with an organization with an internal culture that revels in human suffering.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence as a political tactic. That means there is not only legitimacy, but necessity, in the opposition to begin deploying violence as a political tactic as well. (By this I mean disrupting infrastructure, interfering with law enforcement, disrupting lawmaking, et cetera. Break their cars. Hack their systems. Block their streets and maybe cause damage to their buildings. Under no circumstances do I mean causing physical harm to anyone.) ICE "abruptly terminated" a phone call with the detained mother "when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number". The brown shirts [1] are here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
andrepd 2y ago
You are wrong in assuming good intentions. This child is on the eyes of some people "less than human".
- egberts1 2y ago
  As evidenced by some 291,000 undocumented children whose administrative paperworks are lost. https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2024-08/OIG-24-46-Aug24.pdf https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2024-08/O...
bee_rider 2y ago
Just cancer returns more than one match, fwiw. Although only 7 at the moment, for my search.

freen 2y ago

The purpose of a system is exactly what it does. This IS the point, the goal, and the purpose.

mindslight 2y ago

The assumption of "good intentions" is not really warranted at this point. This movement is mainly driven by people who feel they have been marginalized by our society, and they want to lash out and see other people get hurt, period. Regardless of the ways they have been marginalized, and how much marginalization they have done to themselves by failing to engage with the complexity of the world and following malicious leaders instead, this is where we are at. We need to stare this bare reality in the face lest the supporters, enablers, and fence-sitters continue soothing themselves with rationalizations.

worik 2y ago
> This movement is mainly driven by people who feel they have been marginalized by our society, and they want to lash out and see other people get hurt, Yes. This. This is what drives facism: It is not your fault you feel bad, it's them, over there This is why it is so important to "cuddle a facist". Facism feeds on violence, showing love and compassion to those whom you disagree with robs fascism of its oxygen
- heavyset_go 2y ago
  Fascists think your love and compassion are foolish weaknesses that should be mocked.

watwut 2y ago

Not all of those adults have good intentions. In fact, situation happened because of adults who have bad intentions, managed to execute them and are happy about the result. And they have been giving benefit of the doubt too many times already. At this point, it is absurd to pretend there are good intentions in the core of this.

slg 2y ago

>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership and systems, but every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. Even if you agree with the general motivations and principles behind these, do you not have the humanity to realize the absurdity and cruelness of what is being done in some of these examples? No special accommodation can be made to get the kid with cancer their medicine while they are in custody? I genuinely don't know how those questions can be answered any other way than "cruelty is the point" and if that is your response, I don't know how you sleep at night.

low_tech_love 2y ago
Every individual involved in this is doing it because there is something to be gained. The system is basically saying “the more you deport, the more numbers you generate, the more funding you get and the less I will check what you do with it”. We can blame the individuals sure, but if they keep getting showered with money for doing the wrong thing, of course the system has a big responsibility. Why should the people involved not do this if they are being explicitly encouraged by their employer to do it?
- int_19h 2y ago
  Based on some interactions I have had with CBP and ICE in the past as a legal immigrant, I'm confident that many of those people aren't doing it because of any sort of monetary gain or career advancement, but simply because it gives them an outlet to realize their sadistic tendencies. And because is tolerated and even encouraged, these jobs attract exactly those kinds of people. Which is how you end up with an organization with an internal culture that revels in human suffering.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence as a political tactic. That means there is not only legitimacy, but necessity, in the opposition to begin deploying violence as a political tactic as well. (By this I mean disrupting infrastructure, interfering with law enforcement, disrupting lawmaking, et cetera. Break their cars. Hack their systems. Block their streets and maybe cause damage to their buildings. Under no circumstances do I mean causing physical harm to anyone.) ICE "abruptly terminated" a phone call with the detained mother "when her spouse tried to provide legal counsel’s phone number". The brown shirts [1] are here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung

andrepd 2y ago

You are wrong in assuming good intentions. This child is on the eyes of some people "less than human".

egberts1 2y ago
As evidenced by some 291,000 undocumented children whose administrative paperworks are lost. https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2024-08/OIG-24-46-Aug24.pdf https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2024-08/O...

bee_rider 2y ago

Just cancer returns more than one match, fwiw. Although only 7 at the moment, for my search.