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Super cool, man. Watching pro Geoguessr is my latest break-time activity, these geo-gods never cease to impress me. One thing I'm curious about - in high level

Super cool, man. Watching pro Geoguessr is my latest break-time activity, these geo-gods never cease to impress me. One thing I'm curious about - in high level play, how much of the meta involves knowing characteristics about the photography/equipment/etc. that Google used when they shot it? Frequently I'll watch rainbolt immediately know an African country from nothing but the road, is there something I'm missing?

olex 1y ago
In the stream commentary for some of competitive Geoguessr I've watched, they definitely often mention the color and shape of the car (visible edges, shadow, reflections), so I assume pro players know which cars were used where very well.
- wongarsu 1y ago
  Also things like follow cars (some countries had government officials follow the streetview car), the season in which coverage was created, camera glitches, the quality of the footage, etc. There is a lot of "legitimate" knowledge. With just a street you have the type of road surface, its condition, the type of road markings, the bollards, and the type of soil and vegetation next to the road, as well as the presence and type of power poles next to the road, to name a few. But there is also a lot of information leakage from the way google takes streetview footage.
  - SamPatt 1y ago
    Spot on. Nigeria and Tunisia have follow cars. Senegal, Montenegro and Albania have large rifts in the sky where the panorama stitching software did a poor job. Some parts of Russia had recent forest fires and are very smokey. One road in Turkey is in absurdly thick fog. The list is endless, which is why it's so fun!
    - simonw 1y ago
      Do you have a feel for how often StreetView published fresh imagery? When that happens, is there a wild flurry of activity in the GeoGuessr community as players race to figure out the latest patterns?
      - SamPatt 1y ago
        Google updates Street View fairly frequently, but most of the updates are in developed nations and they're simply updating coverage with the same camera quality and don't change the meta. However every once in a while you'll get huge updates - new countries getting coverage, or a country with older coverage getting new camera generation coverage, etc. And yes, the community watches for these updates and very quickly they try to figure out the implications. It's a huge deal when major coverage changes. If you want an example of this, zi8gzag (one of the best known in the community) put out a video about a major Street View update not long ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLETln6ZatE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLETln6ZatE The community is very tuned into Google's street view plans - see Rainbolt's video talking to the Google street view team a few weeks back: https://youtu.be/2T6pIJWKMcg?si=FUKuGkexnaCt7s_b https://youtu.be/2T6pIJWKMcg?si=FUKuGkexnaCt7s_b
        simonw 1y ago
        That zi8gzag video was fascinating, thanks for that.
- gf000 1y ago
  That sounds exactly like shortcut learning.
- jvvw 1y ago
  Definitely. The season that coverage was done can be a big thing too. In Russia you'll be looking at the car, antenna type and the season as pretty much the first indicator where you might be. Copyright year and camera gen is a big thing in some countries too. Obviously they can still figure out a lot without all that and NMPZ obviates aspects of it (you can't hide camera gens, copyright and season and there are often still traces of the car in some manner). It's definitely not all 'meta' but to be competitive at that level you really do need to be using it. I think Gingey is the only world league player who doesn't use car meta. Even as a fairly good but nowhere near pro player, it's weird how I associate particular places with particular types of weather. I think if saw Almaty in the summer for example it would feel very weird. I've decided not to deliberately learn car meta but still picked up quite a lot without trying and your 'vibe' of a place can certainly include camera gen.
whimsicalism 1y ago
> knowing characteristics about the photography/equipment/etc. that Google used when they shot it? A lot at the top levels - the camera can tell you which contractor, year, location, etc. At anything less than top, not so much - more street line painting, cars, etc.
SamPatt 1y ago
Thanks. I also love watching the pros play. >One thing I'm curious about - in high level play, how much of the meta involves knowing characteristics about the photography/equipment/etc. that Google used when they shot it? The photography matters a great deal - they're categorized into "Generations" of coverage. Gen 2 is low resolution, Gen 3 is pretty good but has a distinct car blur, Gen 4 is highest quality. Each country tends to have only one or two categories of coverage, and some are so distinct you can immediately know a location based solely on that (India is the best example here). You're asking about photography and equipment, and that's a big part of it, but there's a huge amount other 'meta' information too. It is somewhat dependent on game mode. There are three games modes: 1. Moving - You can move around freely 2. No Move - You can't move but you can pan the camera around and zoom 3. NMPZ - No Move, No Pan, No Zoom In Moving and No Move you have all the meta information available to you, because you can look down at the car and up at the sky and zoom in to see details. This can't be overstated. Much of the data is about the car itself. I have an entire flashcard section dedicated only to car blur alone, here's a sample: https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04-26-geoguessr/image/2025-04-26-12-19.png https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04... And another only on antennas: https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04-26-geoguessr/image/2025-04-26-12-22.png https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04... You get the idea. The real pros will go much further. All Google Street View images have a copyright year somewhere in the image. They memorize what years certain countries were covered and match it to the images to help narrow down possibilities. It's all about narrowing down possibilities based on each additional piece of information. The pros have seen so much and memorized so much that it looks like cheating to an outsider, but they just are able to extract information that most people wouldn't even know exists. NMPZ is a bit different because you have substantially less information. Little to no car meta, harder to check copyright, and of course without zooming or panning you just have less information. That's why a lot of pros (like Zi8gzag) really hang their hat on NMPZ play, because it's a better test of skill.
mikeocool 1y ago
I was a very casual GeoGuessr player for a few months — and I found it pretty remarkable how quickly (and without a lot of dedicated study time) you could learn a lot of tells of specific regions — and get reasonably good (certainly not pro good or anything, but good enough to the hit right country ~80% of the time). Another thing is how many areas of the world have surprisingly distinct looks. In one of my early games, before I knew much about anything, I was dropped a trail in the woods. I’ve spent a fair amount of time hiking in Northern New England — and I could just tell immediately that’s where I was just from vibes (i.e. the look of the trees and the rocks) — not something I would have guessed I would have been able to recognize.
- latentsea 1y ago
  I went to watch the Minecraft movie, and when the scene where they arrive outside their new house came on I was like... that feels so much like New Zealand. Then a few weeks later I went to visit my mum in Huntly, and she was like "oh yeah, they filmed part of it in Huntly!". So, yeah vibes are a real thing.
cco 1y ago
Meh, meta is so boring and uninteresting to me personally. Knowing you're in Kenya because of the snorkel, that's just simple memorization. Pick up on geography, architecture, language, sun and street position; that's what I love. It's clearly necessary to compete at the high level though.
- SamPatt 1y ago
  I hear you, a lot of people feel the same way. You can always just play NMPZ if you want to limit the meta. I still enjoy it because of the competitive aspect - you both have access to the same information, who put in the effort to remember and recall it better? If it were only meta I would hate it too. But there's always a nice mix in the vast majority of rounds. And always a few rounds here and there that are so hard they'll humble even the very best!
- charcircuit 1y ago
  How is stuff like geography, architecture, or language not memorization either?
  - SamPatt 1y ago
    It's a valid question. My guess is the actual objection is the artificial feeling of the Google specific information. It cannot possibly be useful in any other context to know what the Street View car in Bermuda looked like when they did their coverage. Whereas knowing about vegetation or architecture feels more generally useful. I think it's a valid point, but you're right that it is all down to memorization at some point. Though some memorization is "vibes" where you don't specifically know how you know, but you just do. That only comes with repetition. I guess it feels more earned that way?
    - dalmo3 1y ago
      It's not only about usefulness. People play gg recreationally to fantasize about being in those places, so of course real world knowledge is where the fun is. Camera meta is a turn off.
  - 1y ago

olex 1y ago

In the stream commentary for some of competitive Geoguessr I've watched, they definitely often mention the color and shape of the car (visible edges, shadow, reflections), so I assume pro players know which cars were used where very well.

wongarsu 1y ago
Also things like follow cars (some countries had government officials follow the streetview car), the season in which coverage was created, camera glitches, the quality of the footage, etc. There is a lot of "legitimate" knowledge. With just a street you have the type of road surface, its condition, the type of road markings, the bollards, and the type of soil and vegetation next to the road, as well as the presence and type of power poles next to the road, to name a few. But there is also a lot of information leakage from the way google takes streetview footage.
- SamPatt 1y ago
  Spot on. Nigeria and Tunisia have follow cars. Senegal, Montenegro and Albania have large rifts in the sky where the panorama stitching software did a poor job. Some parts of Russia had recent forest fires and are very smokey. One road in Turkey is in absurdly thick fog. The list is endless, which is why it's so fun!
  - simonw 1y ago
    Do you have a feel for how often StreetView published fresh imagery? When that happens, is there a wild flurry of activity in the GeoGuessr community as players race to figure out the latest patterns?
    - SamPatt 1y ago
      Google updates Street View fairly frequently, but most of the updates are in developed nations and they're simply updating coverage with the same camera quality and don't change the meta. However every once in a while you'll get huge updates - new countries getting coverage, or a country with older coverage getting new camera generation coverage, etc. And yes, the community watches for these updates and very quickly they try to figure out the implications. It's a huge deal when major coverage changes. If you want an example of this, zi8gzag (one of the best known in the community) put out a video about a major Street View update not long ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLETln6ZatE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLETln6ZatE The community is very tuned into Google's street view plans - see Rainbolt's video talking to the Google street view team a few weeks back: https://youtu.be/2T6pIJWKMcg?si=FUKuGkexnaCt7s_b https://youtu.be/2T6pIJWKMcg?si=FUKuGkexnaCt7s_b
      - simonw 1y ago
        That zi8gzag video was fascinating, thanks for that.
gf000 1y ago
That sounds exactly like shortcut learning.
jvvw 1y ago
Definitely. The season that coverage was done can be a big thing too. In Russia you'll be looking at the car, antenna type and the season as pretty much the first indicator where you might be. Copyright year and camera gen is a big thing in some countries too. Obviously they can still figure out a lot without all that and NMPZ obviates aspects of it (you can't hide camera gens, copyright and season and there are often still traces of the car in some manner). It's definitely not all 'meta' but to be competitive at that level you really do need to be using it. I think Gingey is the only world league player who doesn't use car meta. Even as a fairly good but nowhere near pro player, it's weird how I associate particular places with particular types of weather. I think if saw Almaty in the summer for example it would feel very weird. I've decided not to deliberately learn car meta but still picked up quite a lot without trying and your 'vibe' of a place can certainly include camera gen.

whimsicalism 1y ago

> knowing characteristics about the photography/equipment/etc. that Google used when they shot it? A lot at the top levels - the camera can tell you which contractor, year, location, etc. At anything less than top, not so much - more street line painting, cars, etc.

SamPatt 1y ago

Thanks. I also love watching the pros play. >One thing I'm curious about - in high level play, how much of the meta involves knowing characteristics about the photography/equipment/etc. that Google used when they shot it? The photography matters a great deal - they're categorized into "Generations" of coverage. Gen 2 is low resolution, Gen 3 is pretty good but has a distinct car blur, Gen 4 is highest quality. Each country tends to have only one or two categories of coverage, and some are so distinct you can immediately know a location based solely on that (India is the best example here). You're asking about photography and equipment, and that's a big part of it, but there's a huge amount other 'meta' information too. It is somewhat dependent on game mode. There are three games modes: 1. Moving - You can move around freely 2. No Move - You can't move but you can pan the camera around and zoom 3. NMPZ - No Move, No Pan, No Zoom In Moving and No Move you have all the meta information available to you, because you can look down at the car and up at the sky and zoom in to see details. This can't be overstated. Much of the data is about the car itself. I have an entire flashcard section dedicated only to car blur alone, here's a sample: https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04-26-geoguessr/image/2025-04-26-12-19.png https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04... And another only on antennas: https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04-26-geoguessr/image/2025-04-26-12-22.png https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/sampatt/media@main/posts/2025-04... You get the idea. The real pros will go much further. All Google Street View images have a copyright year somewhere in the image. They memorize what years certain countries were covered and match it to the images to help narrow down possibilities. It's all about narrowing down possibilities based on each additional piece of information. The pros have seen so much and memorized so much that it looks like cheating to an outsider, but they just are able to extract information that most people wouldn't even know exists. NMPZ is a bit different because you have substantially less information. Little to no car meta, harder to check copyright, and of course without zooming or panning you just have less information. That's why a lot of pros (like Zi8gzag) really hang their hat on NMPZ play, because it's a better test of skill.

mikeocool 1y ago

I was a very casual GeoGuessr player for a few months — and I found it pretty remarkable how quickly (and without a lot of dedicated study time) you could learn a lot of tells of specific regions — and get reasonably good (certainly not pro good or anything, but good enough to the hit right country ~80% of the time). Another thing is how many areas of the world have surprisingly distinct looks. In one of my early games, before I knew much about anything, I was dropped a trail in the woods. I’ve spent a fair amount of time hiking in Northern New England — and I could just tell immediately that’s where I was just from vibes (i.e. the look of the trees and the rocks) — not something I would have guessed I would have been able to recognize.

latentsea 1y ago
I went to watch the Minecraft movie, and when the scene where they arrive outside their new house came on I was like... that feels so much like New Zealand. Then a few weeks later I went to visit my mum in Huntly, and she was like "oh yeah, they filmed part of it in Huntly!". So, yeah vibes are a real thing.

cco 1y ago

Meh, meta is so boring and uninteresting to me personally. Knowing you're in Kenya because of the snorkel, that's just simple memorization. Pick up on geography, architecture, language, sun and street position; that's what I love. It's clearly necessary to compete at the high level though.

SamPatt 1y ago
I hear you, a lot of people feel the same way. You can always just play NMPZ if you want to limit the meta. I still enjoy it because of the competitive aspect - you both have access to the same information, who put in the effort to remember and recall it better? If it were only meta I would hate it too. But there's always a nice mix in the vast majority of rounds. And always a few rounds here and there that are so hard they'll humble even the very best!
charcircuit 1y ago
How is stuff like geography, architecture, or language not memorization either?
- SamPatt 1y ago
  It's a valid question. My guess is the actual objection is the artificial feeling of the Google specific information. It cannot possibly be useful in any other context to know what the Street View car in Bermuda looked like when they did their coverage. Whereas knowing about vegetation or architecture feels more generally useful. I think it's a valid point, but you're right that it is all down to memorization at some point. Though some memorization is "vibes" where you don't specifically know how you know, but you just do. That only comes with repetition. I guess it feels more earned that way?
  - dalmo3 1y ago
    It's not only about usefulness. People play gg recreationally to fantasize about being in those places, so of course real world knowledge is where the fun is. Camera meta is a turn off.
- 1y ago