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The Nest Thermostats listed here are falling back to "Honeywell local thermostat" functionality. They will still work for turning the dial locally to control t

by akerl_ 2y ago

The Nest Thermostats listed here are falling back to "Honeywell local thermostat" functionality. They will still work for turning the dial locally to control the temp. They just won't be IoT connected. The 3rd gen Nest thermostat was released in 2015. The 2nd gen and 1st gen were released in 2012 and 2011 respectively. A decade lifespan for a device that gives me metrics on my climate control and lets me tune it from my phone is pretty solid in my book.

EvanAnderson 2y ago
> A decade lifespan for a device that gives me metrics on my climate control and lets me tune it from my phone is pretty solid in my book. That's the attitude I take issue with. The device should work as it did at the time of purchase in perpetuity. If it can't, because of the architecture of the product (i.e. needs third party servers on the Internet) it shouldn't be marketed as being sold, but rather rented. Acceptance that products we buy will just stop working (or, in the case of this product, losing significant functionality) is only encouraging companies to ratchet down lifetimes and hurt consumers more.
- akerl_ 2y ago
  This feels like a distinction without a difference. If all the shelves at Lowes that sell network-connected IoT thermostats said "10 year rental price" instead of "purchase price", the average non-nerd consumer wouldn't change their shopping behavior. The nerds... maybe they would? but they're the ones who already realize the impact of a device needing cloud connectivity to function. The reality is that vendors cannot and will not offer "in perpetuity" commitments to run the cloud portion of their gear. For strategic reasons like "they want to deprecate legacy endpoints and functionality on their end" but also unintentional reasons like "the company went out of business". Everything you buy has a lifespan. Physical objects degrade over time, objects with cloud connectivity rely on external functionality, etc. Picking between them is part of the decision making process: do you buy the cheap furniture that falls apart the first time you move? Or the more expensive furniture that lasts decades? Should smoke detectors be listed as "rentals" because they degrade and have to be replaced?
  - EvanAnderson 2y ago
    > Everything you buy has a lifespan. Physical objects degrade over time, objects with cloud connectivity rely on external functionality, etc. Picking between them is part of the decision making process... Exactly. Consumers have no way to know, right now, if something they "buy" is truly a purchase or a rental. They can't make informed decisions without that knowledge. A technical person can tell the difference, but the average consumer cannot. That's why the distinction needs to be explicit.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    People will often choose to not have a countdown. I buy a smoke alarm with a fixed 10 year life to avoid battery replacement. Others buy models with replaceable batteries, still others install wired alarms. You should disclose the lifecycle at sale so consumers can make a decision. I’ve been in the computing infrastructure business for many years - I can model out the expected life and cost structure for all of my gear.
    - user32489318 2y ago
      Deviating from your argument, but 10y battery life is a EU regulation. In some EU countries, you cannot rent out a living space without smoke alarm that has a 10y battery in it, even if it’s wired in. If you’re looking for a high quality smoke alarm (ability to trigger on different types of fires and certified for EU) I failed to find one that came with a replacement battery, and only a few that are wired in, all of which will have a 10y lasting battery. The more expensive units do connect with internet/vendor and can do smart stuff like call fire department etc, you’re right that there’s a choice. But, the choice is very limited. I’m not sure that an average consumer is even aware that some smoke alarm sensors degrade with time, or not trigger at all types of fires, there is probably some logic in forced unit replacement every decade.
      - xattt 2y ago
        The forced upgrade assumes that sensor technology will improve between purchases.
- gosub100 2y ago
  this is where the FTC should step in and say "FOSS it" so at least consumers can have a choice and companies compete. Google could argue that it costs some nonzero amount (which is infinitesimal, I know), therefore they can't offer it perpetuity, but they could be required to unlock it so a 3rd party can compete and offer you the same service or let FOSS users control it.
- jandrewrogers 2y ago
  It’s a thermostat. It should work as designed for decades.
ForOldHack 2y ago
A decade? Wow. If 1.5 years is a computer generation, the. These are more than 12 years or 8 generations behind. They should warn people about this. 12 car years = 8 computer years = 200 human years. I hope they still keep track of time.
queenkjuul 2y ago
Except a normal thermostat can last many decades and there's no genuinely good reason why these ones can't keep working just as long

by akerl_ 2y ago

EvanAnderson 2y ago

> A decade lifespan for a device that gives me metrics on my climate control and lets me tune it from my phone is pretty solid in my book. That's the attitude I take issue with. The device should work as it did at the time of purchase in perpetuity. If it can't, because of the architecture of the product (i.e. needs third party servers on the Internet) it shouldn't be marketed as being sold, but rather rented. Acceptance that products we buy will just stop working (or, in the case of this product, losing significant functionality) is only encouraging companies to ratchet down lifetimes and hurt consumers more.

akerl_ 2y ago
This feels like a distinction without a difference. If all the shelves at Lowes that sell network-connected IoT thermostats said "10 year rental price" instead of "purchase price", the average non-nerd consumer wouldn't change their shopping behavior. The nerds... maybe they would? but they're the ones who already realize the impact of a device needing cloud connectivity to function. The reality is that vendors cannot and will not offer "in perpetuity" commitments to run the cloud portion of their gear. For strategic reasons like "they want to deprecate legacy endpoints and functionality on their end" but also unintentional reasons like "the company went out of business". Everything you buy has a lifespan. Physical objects degrade over time, objects with cloud connectivity rely on external functionality, etc. Picking between them is part of the decision making process: do you buy the cheap furniture that falls apart the first time you move? Or the more expensive furniture that lasts decades? Should smoke detectors be listed as "rentals" because they degrade and have to be replaced?
- EvanAnderson 2y ago
  > Everything you buy has a lifespan. Physical objects degrade over time, objects with cloud connectivity rely on external functionality, etc. Picking between them is part of the decision making process... Exactly. Consumers have no way to know, right now, if something they "buy" is truly a purchase or a rental. They can't make informed decisions without that knowledge. A technical person can tell the difference, but the average consumer cannot. That's why the distinction needs to be explicit.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  People will often choose to not have a countdown. I buy a smoke alarm with a fixed 10 year life to avoid battery replacement. Others buy models with replaceable batteries, still others install wired alarms. You should disclose the lifecycle at sale so consumers can make a decision. I’ve been in the computing infrastructure business for many years - I can model out the expected life and cost structure for all of my gear.
  - user32489318 2y ago
    Deviating from your argument, but 10y battery life is a EU regulation. In some EU countries, you cannot rent out a living space without smoke alarm that has a 10y battery in it, even if it’s wired in. If you’re looking for a high quality smoke alarm (ability to trigger on different types of fires and certified for EU) I failed to find one that came with a replacement battery, and only a few that are wired in, all of which will have a 10y lasting battery. The more expensive units do connect with internet/vendor and can do smart stuff like call fire department etc, you’re right that there’s a choice. But, the choice is very limited. I’m not sure that an average consumer is even aware that some smoke alarm sensors degrade with time, or not trigger at all types of fires, there is probably some logic in forced unit replacement every decade.
    - xattt 2y ago
      The forced upgrade assumes that sensor technology will improve between purchases.
gosub100 2y ago
this is where the FTC should step in and say "FOSS it" so at least consumers can have a choice and companies compete. Google could argue that it costs some nonzero amount (which is infinitesimal, I know), therefore they can't offer it perpetuity, but they could be required to unlock it so a 3rd party can compete and offer you the same service or let FOSS users control it.
jandrewrogers 2y ago
It’s a thermostat. It should work as designed for decades.

ForOldHack 2y ago

A decade? Wow. If 1.5 years is a computer generation, the. These are more than 12 years or 8 generations behind. They should warn people about this. 12 car years = 8 computer years = 200 human years. I hope they still keep track of time.

queenkjuul 2y ago

Except a normal thermostat can last many decades and there's no genuinely good reason why these ones can't keep working just as long