5 ms·

I'm not sure what caused this, but I think the expectations of modern friendship have become unrealistic. Maybe it's movies and TV, where a "close friend" is m

by prhn 1y ago

I'm not sure what caused this, but I think the expectations of modern friendship have become unrealistic. Maybe it's movies and TV, where a "close friend" is more or less a non judgemental therapist that will throw down in a fight for you. What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. In my experience, most friends come and go. That's OK. People change. Circumstances change. One person is always putting in more effort than the other. Some friends will always be aloof. Some friends will pretend they are independent and don't need friendship "like everyone else does," but they're generally full of it. Some friends will seem clingy. Just roll with it. The other challenge is finding people, especially as you get older. I've posted this before, but as you get older you really need to seek out established communities. Sports, trivia nights, things of that nature. Something where you can hop in and immediately meet 5+ people. Then you need to show up, over and over. That's how friendships form. At that point, it's on you. People are out there and in my experience they are excited to meet new folks. We can write a huge dissertation on why we think The Friendship Recession has happened, but it's quite simple. Inertia is human nature. It takes effort to learn something new and join a community where people are practicing that thing. It takes vulnerability and effort. It's kinda scary. It's a lot harder than turning on YouTube or flipping through TikTok. And most people understandably don't want to do hard things, especially after the stresses of work and life.

dartharva 1y ago
Have I been watching the wrong movies? Because from my perspective Hollywood's depiction of friends is a rather sorry benchmark - most depictions are of exemplarily bad friends.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
barry-cotter 1y ago
> If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I’m probably bottom quintile for social skills and I have done some extremely unwise things for one of my friends who was there for me when I needed a hand. The Hollywood idea of “close friend” is a great deal nearer to my own life experience than its representation of many other important relationships.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  Friendships that started in 20s often include this kind of dynamic. Friendships that started in 30s at least talk the talk. In 40s I can't imagine we would bother. I haven't experienced life beyond that but the trend of "evaluating friendships against the expectations of our 20s" sure seems like a losing proposition.
closewith 1y ago
With respect, I think this is quite a sad and revealing comment, but your Hollywood definition of a friend fits my friends. I wonder if you maybe never experienced friendship but rather just acquaintances.
- michaelt 1y ago
  The friends who would throw down for you in a fight at age 19 when you reach age 40, will have families to look after and a lot more to lose than they used to have, like a nice house and a good job or they'll be at the far end of a skype link / international flight or they'll have discovered a new chill side to themselves now they don't have 19-year-old energy and hormone levels and you'll realise you don't want your boy to fuck up his custody arrangements by getting sent to jail over some dumb brawl They'll still support you in the face of life's challenges, but it'll be support of a very different kind.
  - zemvpferreira 1y ago
    I’m 40. I didn’t throw down for my friends when I was 19, but I support those same friends through divorces, cancer, deaths now. They’ll do the same for me. Some friends are closer than family. That’s luck, but also intention.
  - SamBam 1y ago
    I figured the "throw down for you in a fight" was hyperbolic. Obviously I don't want a friend who will literally run the risk of getting sent to jail over some dumb brawl. And I didn't when I was 19 either.
  - tokioyoyo 1y ago
    My best friend asks me what I had for lunch on random days. Sometimes I get drunk and message him how I was reminiscing about the good times together. Things don’t have to be as complex as you think. Just appreciating the simple stuff might go long way.
    - rokhayakebe 1y ago
zug_zug 1y ago
>> What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I've come to this same conclusion, but rarely express it because it's possible I'm just different. And I'd even go one step further, I think what a lot of people say friendship is, isn't actually what human friendship is in practice. I think these unrealistic expectations undermine real-world friendships because they always fall short. Theoretical friendship: - Completely perfect and devoid of all realities of life - No jealousy, no competition, no negative feelings - Timeless and immortal - No effort involved - Completely balanced and healthy for everybody at all times - Able to talk about every topic Realistic friendship: - Temporary at first, may or may not build into something more - Often starts with a simple exchange of banter on common interests - Multiple opinions/topics that are mutually avoided - One person often tries harder, one person often values the relationship more - The relationship may or may not even be mutually healthy - Many will hit a point where they become more effort than they're worth and end (e.g. moving) - Some will never grow out of one or two common things to bitch about
- closewith 1y ago
  These don't represent real or Hollywood friendships at all. > - Completely perfect and devoid of all realities of life Friendships are relationships that stand the test of time and hardship. You work through problems, illnesses including mental health struggles, deaths, employment and money problems, family and relationship problems, legal problems, all sorts. > - No jealousy, no competition, no negative feelings There are obviously always mixed emotions, but generally you won't harbour serious ill will towards your friends. This is something you can work on, though, as jealousy and envy are personality traits that can be controlled. Healthy competition is a positive, though. > - Timeless and immortal Friendships change and sometimes have to be ended, even when you like the other person. I think this is quite common and almost a trope of Hollywood movies. > - No effort involved Short of family and maybe employment, friendships require the most work in life. This one is particularly baffling from a Hollywood perspective, as going a friend in need is like the all-time Hollywood trope. > - Completely balanced and healthy for everybody at all times Obviously this isn't true, but this isn't portrayed either. Flawed characters are the only compelling characters in Hollywood. > - Able to talk about every topic Again, changing the uncomfortable topic trope is an ultra-trope. Your "realistic friendship" section fits acquaintances rather than friends. >I think these unrealistic expectations undermine real-world friendships because they always fall short. I think some self-reflection is in order here, as this is projection.
BlueTemplar 1y ago
I did a double take on that "ten or more close friends"... wouldn't that be a very small fraction of the population in the first place ? I doubt even popular school / university kids manage to sustain that many actually *close* friends for long !
benfortuna 1y ago
>The other challenge is finding people, especially as you get older. I've posted this before, but as you get older you really need to seek out established communities. Sports, trivia nights, things of that nature. Something where you can hop in and immediately meet 5+ people. Then you need to show up, over and over. That's how friendships form. The article follows similar lines, but I feel "forcing friendships" just leads to shallow "friendships" with little meaning. In fact so many modern friendships are sustained by small talk, which Carl Jung derides as meaningless..
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
alganet 1y ago
> Maybe it's movies and TV That's pathetic thinking. It's inoffensive until someone turns the keys. Plane accidents often occur by sabotage or failure of multiple systems. There has been an interplay and "intellectual curiosity" from both movie studios and internet giants on online personas and social groups. They even married recently! This bait and switch of blaming the other will backfire.
TimByte 1y ago
I think people underestimate how much real friendship is built through boring repetition rather than some cinematic, instant bond
ddr123 1y ago
Yes. I think what everyone wants to do with all this postulating and explaining is avoid the fact that it is hard and takes time and is awkward and there's no clear metric of success. But still worth it, somehow. Like life.

by prhn 1y ago

dartharva 1y ago

Have I been watching the wrong movies? Because from my perspective Hollywood's depiction of friends is a rather sorry benchmark - most depictions are of exemplarily bad friends.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

barry-cotter 1y ago

> If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I’m probably bottom quintile for social skills and I have done some extremely unwise things for one of my friends who was there for me when I needed a hand. The Hollywood idea of “close friend” is a great deal nearer to my own life experience than its representation of many other important relationships.

jvanderbot 1y ago
Friendships that started in 20s often include this kind of dynamic. Friendships that started in 30s at least talk the talk. In 40s I can't imagine we would bother. I haven't experienced life beyond that but the trend of "evaluating friendships against the expectations of our 20s" sure seems like a losing proposition.

closewith 1y ago

With respect, I think this is quite a sad and revealing comment, but your Hollywood definition of a friend fits my friends. I wonder if you maybe never experienced friendship but rather just acquaintances.

michaelt 1y ago
The friends who would throw down for you in a fight at age 19 when you reach age 40, will have families to look after and a lot more to lose than they used to have, like a nice house and a good job or they'll be at the far end of a skype link / international flight or they'll have discovered a new chill side to themselves now they don't have 19-year-old energy and hormone levels and you'll realise you don't want your boy to fuck up his custody arrangements by getting sent to jail over some dumb brawl They'll still support you in the face of life's challenges, but it'll be support of a very different kind.
- zemvpferreira 1y ago
  I’m 40. I didn’t throw down for my friends when I was 19, but I support those same friends through divorces, cancer, deaths now. They’ll do the same for me. Some friends are closer than family. That’s luck, but also intention.
- SamBam 1y ago
  I figured the "throw down for you in a fight" was hyperbolic. Obviously I don't want a friend who will literally run the risk of getting sent to jail over some dumb brawl. And I didn't when I was 19 either.
- tokioyoyo 1y ago
  My best friend asks me what I had for lunch on random days. Sometimes I get drunk and message him how I was reminiscing about the good times together. Things don’t have to be as complex as you think. Just appreciating the simple stuff might go long way.
  - rokhayakebe 1y ago

zug_zug 1y ago

>> What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I've come to this same conclusion, but rarely express it because it's possible I'm just different. And I'd even go one step further, I think what a lot of people say friendship is, isn't actually what human friendship is in practice. I think these unrealistic expectations undermine real-world friendships because they always fall short. Theoretical friendship: - Completely perfect and devoid of all realities of life - No jealousy, no competition, no negative feelings - Timeless and immortal - No effort involved - Completely balanced and healthy for everybody at all times - Able to talk about every topic Realistic friendship: - Temporary at first, may or may not build into something more - Often starts with a simple exchange of banter on common interests - Multiple opinions/topics that are mutually avoided - One person often tries harder, one person often values the relationship more - The relationship may or may not even be mutually healthy - Many will hit a point where they become more effort than they're worth and end (e.g. moving) - Some will never grow out of one or two common things to bitch about

closewith 1y ago
These don't represent real or Hollywood friendships at all. > - Completely perfect and devoid of all realities of life Friendships are relationships that stand the test of time and hardship. You work through problems, illnesses including mental health struggles, deaths, employment and money problems, family and relationship problems, legal problems, all sorts. > - No jealousy, no competition, no negative feelings There are obviously always mixed emotions, but generally you won't harbour serious ill will towards your friends. This is something you can work on, though, as jealousy and envy are personality traits that can be controlled. Healthy competition is a positive, though. > - Timeless and immortal Friendships change and sometimes have to be ended, even when you like the other person. I think this is quite common and almost a trope of Hollywood movies. > - No effort involved Short of family and maybe employment, friendships require the most work in life. This one is particularly baffling from a Hollywood perspective, as going a friend in need is like the all-time Hollywood trope. > - Completely balanced and healthy for everybody at all times Obviously this isn't true, but this isn't portrayed either. Flawed characters are the only compelling characters in Hollywood. > - Able to talk about every topic Again, changing the uncomfortable topic trope is an ultra-trope. Your "realistic friendship" section fits acquaintances rather than friends. >I think these unrealistic expectations undermine real-world friendships because they always fall short. I think some self-reflection is in order here, as this is projection.

BlueTemplar 1y ago

I did a double take on that "ten or more close friends"... wouldn't that be a very small fraction of the population in the first place ? I doubt even popular school / university kids manage to sustain that many actually *close* friends for long !

benfortuna 1y ago

>The other challenge is finding people, especially as you get older. I've posted this before, but as you get older you really need to seek out established communities. Sports, trivia nights, things of that nature. Something where you can hop in and immediately meet 5+ people. Then you need to show up, over and over. That's how friendships form. The article follows similar lines, but I feel "forcing friendships" just leads to shallow "friendships" with little meaning. In fact so many modern friendships are sustained by small talk, which Carl Jung derides as meaningless..

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

alganet 1y ago

> Maybe it's movies and TV That's pathetic thinking. It's inoffensive until someone turns the keys. Plane accidents often occur by sabotage or failure of multiple systems. There has been an interplay and "intellectual curiosity" from both movie studios and internet giants on online personas and social groups. They even married recently! This bait and switch of blaming the other will backfire.

TimByte 1y ago

I think people underestimate how much real friendship is built through boring repetition rather than some cinematic, instant bond

ddr123 1y ago

Yes. I think what everyone wants to do with all this postulating and explaining is avoid the fact that it is hard and takes time and is awkward and there's no clear metric of success. But still worth it, somehow. Like life.