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It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. Most of my friend interactions would come from things like having a moment with nothing to do in t

It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. Most of my friend interactions would come from things like having a moment with nothing to do in the bus, realizing I have no particular plans this weekend and reaching out to a couple friends to see if they’re available. Now those moments are instantly drowned by opening instagram before a thought bubbles up. And when the weekend eventually comes and there’s no plan, Netflix is just a button press away. We need moments of boredom and reflection to push us into action, the attention economy is robbing us from that. I’d even say the increase in anxiety related symptoms is due to this lack of idleness. The mind feels as if it’s super busy moving from active task to active task when in reality there were hours of just defaulting to reels.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
It's not only modern technology taking up time. I foolishly bought a project house and have spent nearly every weekend and some weeknights doing repairs and improvements. My SO also tends toward time consuming hobbies like gardening and aquariums. Add young children and every free moment in between is precious.
- BigGreenJorts 2y ago
  On one hand I'm inclined to believe this particular example relies on personality. My aunts and uncles had their home hobby projects and so did they're friends. They'd help either other out on their projects and then take a break over a beer or cigs, chatting the rest of the evening away.
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  But you see the Amish, they just rebuilt a whole lumber sawmill in only eight days. https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1915121027820159414 https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1915121027820159414 Your project house was an individual pursuit when it should be a collective one.
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    My project has involved neighbors, family, and even a few contractors. But unlike a barn built from scratch there are a lot of random bespoke tasks. Many of them require judgement and experimenting to make it work. Sadly the property was neglected a long time, and poorly built in the first place. Bulldozing and having a new house professionally built would've been faster, produced a better outcome, and only been moderately more expensive--in hindsight.
    - jagger27 2y ago
      In the old world you would have the distinct privilege of bringing this experience to your community. No naive youth can afford even a “starter” house for you to help them rebuild.
  - gehwartzen 2y ago
    There’s Habitat for Humanity which I think would fit this description. I’ve personally never involved myself with it but over the last few months the group built a modest house on a small lot next to my ex-spouse’s place. Every weekend I saw a group of folks (ranging in age from early 20s to retirement) there building, chatting and generally being very friendly with one another. Really cool to see.
  - is_true 2y ago
    Most of my friends don't like doing manual work, they think it's below them unfortunately. There's just one that really loves to do it, the rest would feel exploited.
- torben-friis 2y ago
  That is true, but real hobbies will rarely take up your micropauses - going to the bathroom, coffee break at work, commuting, waiting between sets at the gym, and so on. You won’t do social stuff in those micropauses anyway, that’s true, but I think those moments are where you’d normally “mentally review”. Wondering how a friend is, feeling like you miss a connection, etc. Without that, I think we mentally drift away from social connections.
- bilsbie 2y ago
  You could involve friends in those hobbies. In fact men do better hanging out if they have a goal. My stepbrother has declined hang out invitations for decades but the minute I need the most minor house or car repair he’ll drop everything and be there all day.
  - Braxton1980 2y ago
    You just found the ultimate hack to getting your friends to rebuild an entire house for you
  - james_marks 2y ago
    I can relate to your step brother. I don’t want to “hang out”- full stop. I want to build and make and do things, and when I can combine that with friendship, all the better. There’s something about needing to feel and appear independent that discourages the ask, and it’s worth challenging.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Real hobbies are great though. I enjoy doing them so much more than just visiting people.
- SamBam 2y ago
  But people have had activities that take up their time since time immemorial. But the "friendship recession" seems to be much newer. FWIW, my friend recently built a summer home. I went over about four weekends to help drywall, put in flooring, build stud walls, etc. He's had other friends over other weekends. Sometimes it's just one friend, sometimes a few of us go up together. It's a great time, and definitely strengthens our social bonds. I'm also friends with my kids' parents (one of whom is the one with the house). Playdates turn into dinner invites. I think we're lucky that we're on the older end -- mid-40s -- so maybe we had time to work our social muscles before social media and Netflix, and have socialization as an expectation. I'm also personally lucky I have a wife who does a lot of the social reaching-out. For whatever reason, this seems like it's more and more a gendered role, and I'm definitely worse at it -- if I were a bachelor I'd probably be happy staying home alone much more, to my long-term detriment.
  - 7thaccount 2y ago
    I think you're right that those of us that had to socialize either before or when the Internet was more in its infancy are just a lot more used to small talk and meet ups. I've noticed younger family members seem to not value that kind of community. The boomers and their parents would say the same about my generation as we have nothing on them. That's literally all they do is drink beer with friends and socialize at various clubs. D&D is the closest equivalent that the younger generation has and half of the people I see playing at my local game shop have gray hair.
creata 2y ago
I don't think it's just the attention economy. I think the Internet was bound to replace a lot of the time that people spent with friends. There's just too much interesting stuff too conveniently accessible.
- siquick 2y ago
  I’ve got a feeling that if you looked at the average persons average internet usage it would not be full of interesting stuff.
  - barry-cotter 2y ago
    The world is full of people who find things interesting that I don’t but that’s a fact about me, not the world.
- thimkerbell 2y ago
  What would happen if you tried a meetup with nearby people to read&discuss what you found interesting?
- Pamar 2y ago
  Key word: "conveniently". I can now (probably, not sure if this exists) don my Apple VR set and walk around Machu Picchu or the Sistine Chapel. But this would be a vicar experience. Just like reading lots of Wikipedia pages on, I dunno, Brutalism will not make an architect out of me.
highstep 2y ago
you're right. Now delete that app!
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
AbstractH24 2y ago
> It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. While I enjoy listening to podcasts I recognize how much its reduced the amount I'm idle. Particularly while commuting.

paulryanrogers 2y ago

It's not only modern technology taking up time. I foolishly bought a project house and have spent nearly every weekend and some weeknights doing repairs and improvements. My SO also tends toward time consuming hobbies like gardening and aquariums. Add young children and every free moment in between is precious.

BigGreenJorts 2y ago
On one hand I'm inclined to believe this particular example relies on personality. My aunts and uncles had their home hobby projects and so did they're friends. They'd help either other out on their projects and then take a break over a beer or cigs, chatting the rest of the evening away.
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
But you see the Amish, they just rebuilt a whole lumber sawmill in only eight days. https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1915121027820159414 https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1915121027820159414 Your project house was an individual pursuit when it should be a collective one.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  My project has involved neighbors, family, and even a few contractors. But unlike a barn built from scratch there are a lot of random bespoke tasks. Many of them require judgement and experimenting to make it work. Sadly the property was neglected a long time, and poorly built in the first place. Bulldozing and having a new house professionally built would've been faster, produced a better outcome, and only been moderately more expensive--in hindsight.
  - jagger27 2y ago
    In the old world you would have the distinct privilege of bringing this experience to your community. No naive youth can afford even a “starter” house for you to help them rebuild.
- gehwartzen 2y ago
  There’s Habitat for Humanity which I think would fit this description. I’ve personally never involved myself with it but over the last few months the group built a modest house on a small lot next to my ex-spouse’s place. Every weekend I saw a group of folks (ranging in age from early 20s to retirement) there building, chatting and generally being very friendly with one another. Really cool to see.
- is_true 2y ago
  Most of my friends don't like doing manual work, they think it's below them unfortunately. There's just one that really loves to do it, the rest would feel exploited.
torben-friis 2y ago
That is true, but real hobbies will rarely take up your micropauses - going to the bathroom, coffee break at work, commuting, waiting between sets at the gym, and so on. You won’t do social stuff in those micropauses anyway, that’s true, but I think those moments are where you’d normally “mentally review”. Wondering how a friend is, feeling like you miss a connection, etc. Without that, I think we mentally drift away from social connections.
bilsbie 2y ago
You could involve friends in those hobbies. In fact men do better hanging out if they have a goal. My stepbrother has declined hang out invitations for decades but the minute I need the most minor house or car repair he’ll drop everything and be there all day.
- Braxton1980 2y ago
  You just found the ultimate hack to getting your friends to rebuild an entire house for you
- james_marks 2y ago
  I can relate to your step brother. I don’t want to “hang out”- full stop. I want to build and make and do things, and when I can combine that with friendship, all the better. There’s something about needing to feel and appear independent that discourages the ask, and it’s worth challenging.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Real hobbies are great though. I enjoy doing them so much more than just visiting people.
SamBam 2y ago
But people have had activities that take up their time since time immemorial. But the "friendship recession" seems to be much newer. FWIW, my friend recently built a summer home. I went over about four weekends to help drywall, put in flooring, build stud walls, etc. He's had other friends over other weekends. Sometimes it's just one friend, sometimes a few of us go up together. It's a great time, and definitely strengthens our social bonds. I'm also friends with my kids' parents (one of whom is the one with the house). Playdates turn into dinner invites. I think we're lucky that we're on the older end -- mid-40s -- so maybe we had time to work our social muscles before social media and Netflix, and have socialization as an expectation. I'm also personally lucky I have a wife who does a lot of the social reaching-out. For whatever reason, this seems like it's more and more a gendered role, and I'm definitely worse at it -- if I were a bachelor I'd probably be happy staying home alone much more, to my long-term detriment.
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  I think you're right that those of us that had to socialize either before or when the Internet was more in its infancy are just a lot more used to small talk and meet ups. I've noticed younger family members seem to not value that kind of community. The boomers and their parents would say the same about my generation as we have nothing on them. That's literally all they do is drink beer with friends and socialize at various clubs. D&D is the closest equivalent that the younger generation has and half of the people I see playing at my local game shop have gray hair.

creata 2y ago

I don't think it's just the attention economy. I think the Internet was bound to replace a lot of the time that people spent with friends. There's just too much interesting stuff too conveniently accessible.

siquick 2y ago
I’ve got a feeling that if you looked at the average persons average internet usage it would not be full of interesting stuff.
- barry-cotter 2y ago
  The world is full of people who find things interesting that I don’t but that’s a fact about me, not the world.
thimkerbell 2y ago
What would happen if you tried a meetup with nearby people to read&discuss what you found interesting?
Pamar 2y ago
Key word: "conveniently". I can now (probably, not sure if this exists) don my Apple VR set and walk around Machu Picchu or the Sistine Chapel. But this would be a vicar experience. Just like reading lots of Wikipedia pages on, I dunno, Brutalism will not make an architect out of me.

highstep 2y ago

you're right. Now delete that app!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

AbstractH24 2y ago

> It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. While I enjoy listening to podcasts I recognize how much its reduced the amount I'm idle. Particularly while commuting.