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<< It’s easy to blame people for not voting if you ignore the real difficulties in actually casting a vote for many Americans. I hesitated while reading this p

<< It’s easy to blame people for not voting if you ignore the real difficulties in actually casting a vote for many Americans. I hesitated while reading this part, because I wholly agreed with the first 2 sentences. Do you mean physically difficult in terms of barriers to voting or making a less direct comment about the usefulness of that vote? If the former, I think I disagree compared to other countries ( and the levels of paperwork needed ). If the latter, I would be interested to hear some specifics.

mulmen 2y ago
Physically more difficult. Purging voter rolls. Moving polling locations. Voter ID requirements. Restrictions on mail in ballots. Etc.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
  I willing to give you moving polling locations, but with that minor concession. Can you explain to me like I am 5 why those are bad things? For a simple person like myself, one would think, data accuracy, voting system integrity, and verifiability would be of use and value to everyone.
  - thunderfork 2y ago
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  - fugalfervor 2y ago
    Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population, one that reliably skews in one direction on the political spectrum. However, there is no evidence that voter ID laws reduce fraud, nor is there evidence that the absence of such laws introduces fraud. Something like 90% of voter fraud is people making mistakes on their ballot, or not realizing they were not allowed to vote. Also, voter fraud is rare and elections are already very secure. Introducing laws that don't affect the (already low) level of fraud, while making it harder for one party's voter base to vote, is not of use and value to everyone -- it is of use and value to the side that benefits from a reduction in the other side's votes.
    - whatthesmack 2y ago
      > Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population Can you prove that? I've never read about a single case of somebody being unable to obtain a government photo ID who was legitimately eligible to vote. People need their photo IDs for pretty much everything these days. That's why voter ID is a requirement in most countries. Because it's reasonable, it makes sense, and it benefits society more than any theoretical, unproven harm.
      - fugalfervor 2y ago
        > I've never read about a single case of somebody being unable to obtain a government photo ID who was legitimately eligible to vote That doesn't mean your opinion is true. I don't know how much or how widely you read, nor do I know how varied your sources are. That you have never read an anecdote describing my assertion does not mean my assertion is false. You can read more about the effects of voter ID laws (according to research) here: https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voter-identification https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voter-identification
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
      << not realizing they were not allowed to vote << Introducing laws that don't affect the (already low) level of fraud << voter fraud is rare Hmm. Just the perception of fraud among the population is enough to undermine the system. We can argue whether Republicans in this case are simply playing to their base by drumming up doubt in the voting system or rigging the system for their benefit or both, but if you are going to admit that a) people who are not supposed to vote do vote b) argue that laws to penalize such votes don't work, you sound about as partisan as they do ( and merely arguing for 'your' side ). Just sayin'. << Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population, Why is that important to you?
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  - mulmen 2y ago
    Yes, recognizing the full consequences requires second order thinking which by definition is a challenge for the simple minded.

mulmen 2y ago

Physically more difficult. Purging voter rolls. Moving polling locations. Voter ID requirements. Restrictions on mail in ballots. Etc.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
I willing to give you moving polling locations, but with that minor concession. Can you explain to me like I am 5 why those are bad things? For a simple person like myself, one would think, data accuracy, voting system integrity, and verifiability would be of use and value to everyone.
- thunderfork 2y ago
  [dead]
- fugalfervor 2y ago
  Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population, one that reliably skews in one direction on the political spectrum. However, there is no evidence that voter ID laws reduce fraud, nor is there evidence that the absence of such laws introduces fraud. Something like 90% of voter fraud is people making mistakes on their ballot, or not realizing they were not allowed to vote. Also, voter fraud is rare and elections are already very secure. Introducing laws that don't affect the (already low) level of fraud, while making it harder for one party's voter base to vote, is not of use and value to everyone -- it is of use and value to the side that benefits from a reduction in the other side's votes.
  - whatthesmack 2y ago
    > Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population Can you prove that? I've never read about a single case of somebody being unable to obtain a government photo ID who was legitimately eligible to vote. People need their photo IDs for pretty much everything these days. That's why voter ID is a requirement in most countries. Because it's reasonable, it makes sense, and it benefits society more than any theoretical, unproven harm.
    - fugalfervor 2y ago
      > I've never read about a single case of somebody being unable to obtain a government photo ID who was legitimately eligible to vote That doesn't mean your opinion is true. I don't know how much or how widely you read, nor do I know how varied your sources are. That you have never read an anecdote describing my assertion does not mean my assertion is false. You can read more about the effects of voter ID laws (according to research) here: https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voter-identification https://electionlab.mit.edu/research/voter-identification
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
    << not realizing they were not allowed to vote << Introducing laws that don't affect the (already low) level of fraud << voter fraud is rare Hmm. Just the perception of fraud among the population is enough to undermine the system. We can argue whether Republicans in this case are simply playing to their base by drumming up doubt in the voting system or rigging the system for their benefit or both, but if you are going to admit that a) people who are not supposed to vote do vote b) argue that laws to penalize such votes don't work, you sound about as partisan as they do ( and merely arguing for 'your' side ). Just sayin'. << Voter ID laws disproportionately affect a very specific subset of the population, Why is that important to you?
    - deleted 2y ago
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- mulmen 2y ago
  Yes, recognizing the full consequences requires second order thinking which by definition is a challenge for the simple minded.