4 ms·

I agree 100%. It's exhausting fighting against antisemitic bias, and it feels like it's everywhere these days. My problem with Ed Martin is that what he is doin

I agree 100%. It's exhausting fighting against antisemitic bias, and it feels like it's everywhere these days. My problem with Ed Martin is that what he is doing is clearly wrong. Hannah Arendt wrote a book about people like him.

emacsen 1y ago
The fact that my comment is -2 on HN is a great example of the problem. I'm working on a solution to the effects of this isolation, but it's not ready for a big announcement.
giraffe_lady 1y ago
Could one of you point me to antisemitic bias on wikipedia just so I have a concrete example at hand?
- moshegramovsky 1y ago
  https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i... Read it for yourself.
  - pesus 1y ago
    I'm not sure the organization that defended Musk's Nazi salute is a reliable source on antisemitism.
  - intermerda 1y ago
    I tried giving it a shot. It starts with an "executive summary", followed by an intro to how Wikipedia works. The very first link to any concrete evidence is by a guy who has a page on PragerU with gems like "Russian collusion hoax" and how the "mainstream media" is "fake news". It's a pretty simple case of Wittgenstein's ruler for me. It tells me more about ADL as an org than the content.
  - hackandthink 1y ago
    The analysis there is not convincing. It is obvious that Wikipedia admins communicate with each other. The fact that Aljazeera is referenced is also okay. In fact, this is not the official Israeli narrative, it seems rather trustworthy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...
  - Braxton1980 1y ago
    Instead of posting another person's argument that contains your source can you be more specific? This is like citing an entire book to prove a point.
  - deeThrow94 1y ago
    The ADL destroyed any credibility they had worked to build when they started conflating criticism of israel with antisemitism.
  - Kim_Bruning 1y ago
    Oh, that's VERY interesting. Thank you very much. Needs to be checked a bit more thoroughly, but the ADL report and the D.C. U.S. attorney's letter seem to have significant thematic overlap. It could well have served as one of the sources.
- emacsen 1y ago
  Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation, such as that Zionism is the belief that Arabs needs to be destroyed. That is like saying the Civil Rights movement in the US was about killing white people. They also position things in such a way that implies antisemitic things, such as saying that Zionism is only 200 years old, or discussing the Israel wars only or primarily through an Arab lens. These biases around Jewish topics are small individually but large in aggregate, especially in how they present Jews and Jewish topics. Multiple Jewish and civil rights organizations have done a more comprehensive job at discussing this, even organizations who don't usually agree on things. While they talk about "anti-Israel bias" Wikipedia articles on or mentioning Zionism (80% of Jews are Zionist) are IMHO just as, if not more damaging, and demonstrate the issue. Most importantly though, talk to the Jews in your life about this. They will tell you. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entries-show-anti-israel-bias-says-wjc https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entrie... https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563 https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-editors-used-to-spread-anti-israel-bias-since-oct-7/ https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-edit... https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i... https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipedia-s-dangerous-anti-israel-bias-opinion https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipe... https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-editors-hijacked-the-israel-palestine-narrative https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...
  - giraffe_lady 1y ago
    Most of the jews I know are through anti-genocide activism and they have a different view of this. I wanted to check because it is important to me that I not engage in antisemitism. Thanks for the info.
    - emacsen 1y ago
      [flagged]
ummonk 1y ago
At a time when students are having their visas revoked merely for writing Op-Eds critical of Israel, it's rather ridiculous to see the pro-Israel side acting like you're the ones being persecuted everywhere.
- bawolff 1y ago
  Since when do two wrongs make a right?
- moshegramovsky 1y ago
  Your post proves my point quite exactly. Here you busy othering Jewish people by using language like "acting like you're the ones being persecuted". JEWISH PEOPLE ARE BEING PERSECUTED. I myself have been subject to anti-semitic treatment on/off throughout my entire life. I have been called the K word in the past. Current coworkers say things even though I am not even an Israeli citizen, and then are sure to add "of course Moshe we are not talking about you"... I don't support what happened to Mahmoud Khalil. The Trump administration is evil. I might support Israel's right to exist, but I voted for Kamala because I support the US a hell of a lot more. None of the ordinary citizens of Israel or Palestine or the US is responsible for what's happening in Israel. https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-fbi-data-reflects-record-high-number-anti-jewish-hate-crimes https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-fbi-data-ref... If you're not Jewish it might be a little difficult to understand. I know quite a few Jews who do not dare light a menorah in their window. Who don't dare fly an Israeli flag or identify themselves as Jews in any way. I am secular, but synagogues have to have armed security. Jewish people != Israeli government. By the way, Americans are absolutely safe traveling to Israel. You simple cannot say the same thing for almost any Arab country. Well, that's how Jews feel almost everywhere in the world.

emacsen 1y ago

The fact that my comment is -2 on HN is a great example of the problem. I'm working on a solution to the effects of this isolation, but it's not ready for a big announcement.

giraffe_lady 1y ago

Could one of you point me to antisemitic bias on wikipedia just so I have a concrete example at hand?

moshegramovsky 1y ago
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i... Read it for yourself.
- pesus 1y ago
  I'm not sure the organization that defended Musk's Nazi salute is a reliable source on antisemitism.
- intermerda 1y ago
  I tried giving it a shot. It starts with an "executive summary", followed by an intro to how Wikipedia works. The very first link to any concrete evidence is by a guy who has a page on PragerU with gems like "Russian collusion hoax" and how the "mainstream media" is "fake news". It's a pretty simple case of Wittgenstein's ruler for me. It tells me more about ADL as an org than the content.
- hackandthink 1y ago
  The analysis there is not convincing. It is obvious that Wikipedia admins communicate with each other. The fact that Aljazeera is referenced is also okay. In fact, this is not the official Israeli narrative, it seems rather trustworthy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co...
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  Instead of posting another person's argument that contains your source can you be more specific? This is like citing an entire book to prove a point.
- deeThrow94 1y ago
  The ADL destroyed any credibility they had worked to build when they started conflating criticism of israel with antisemitism.
- Kim_Bruning 1y ago
  Oh, that's VERY interesting. Thank you very much. Needs to be checked a bit more thoroughly, but the ADL report and the D.C. U.S. attorney's letter seem to have significant thematic overlap. It could well have served as one of the sources.
emacsen 1y ago
Basically, almost any time Zionists are mentioned, they're mentioned in a negative light and with genuine disinformation, such as that Zionism is the belief that Arabs needs to be destroyed. That is like saying the Civil Rights movement in the US was about killing white people. They also position things in such a way that implies antisemitic things, such as saying that Zionism is only 200 years old, or discussing the Israel wars only or primarily through an Arab lens. These biases around Jewish topics are small individually but large in aggregate, especially in how they present Jews and Jewish topics. Multiple Jewish and civil rights organizations have done a more comprehensive job at discussing this, even organizations who don't usually agree on things. While they talk about "anti-Israel bias" Wikipedia articles on or mentioning Zionism (80% of Jews are Zionist) are IMHO just as, if not more damaging, and demonstrate the issue. Most importantly though, talk to the Jews in your life about this. They will tell you. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entries-show-anti-israel-bias-says-wjc https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/wikipedia-entrie... https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563 https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-846563 https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-editors-used-to-spread-anti-israel-bias-since-oct-7/ https://cameraoncampus.org/blog/seven-tactics-wikipedia-edit... https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-israel-and-anti-jewish-bias-undermines-wikipedias-neutrality https://www.adl.org/resources/report/editing-hate-how-anti-i... https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipedia-s-dangerous-anti-israel-bias-opinion https://www.standwithus.com/post/it-s-time-to-correct-wikipe... https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-editors-hijacked-the-israel-palestine-narrative https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit...
- giraffe_lady 1y ago
  Most of the jews I know are through anti-genocide activism and they have a different view of this. I wanted to check because it is important to me that I not engage in antisemitism. Thanks for the info.
  - emacsen 1y ago
    [flagged]

ummonk 1y ago

At a time when students are having their visas revoked merely for writing Op-Eds critical of Israel, it's rather ridiculous to see the pro-Israel side acting like you're the ones being persecuted everywhere.

bawolff 1y ago
Since when do two wrongs make a right?
moshegramovsky 1y ago
Your post proves my point quite exactly. Here you busy othering Jewish people by using language like "acting like you're the ones being persecuted". JEWISH PEOPLE ARE BEING PERSECUTED. I myself have been subject to anti-semitic treatment on/off throughout my entire life. I have been called the K word in the past. Current coworkers say things even though I am not even an Israeli citizen, and then are sure to add "of course Moshe we are not talking about you"... I don't support what happened to Mahmoud Khalil. The Trump administration is evil. I might support Israel's right to exist, but I voted for Kamala because I support the US a hell of a lot more. None of the ordinary citizens of Israel or Palestine or the US is responsible for what's happening in Israel. https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-fbi-data-reflects-record-high-number-anti-jewish-hate-crimes https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-fbi-data-ref... If you're not Jewish it might be a little difficult to understand. I know quite a few Jews who do not dare light a menorah in their window. Who don't dare fly an Israeli flag or identify themselves as Jews in any way. I am secular, but synagogues have to have armed security. Jewish people != Israeli government. By the way, Americans are absolutely safe traveling to Israel. You simple cannot say the same thing for almost any Arab country. Well, that's how Jews feel almost everywhere in the world.