5 ms·

Meanwhile jet fuel for private jets is (and remains) not taxed at all, even in the EU.

cogman10 2y ago
Which is bonkers. If ever there was a thing that should be taxed it's jet fuel for private jets. 300% tax on private jet fuel would be reasonable. The emissions just to shuttle rich people from one side of the country to the next (For some, multiple times per day) is insane. You should need to be a billionaire just to afford flying private jets and it should still eat a significant portion of your income if that's what you choose to do. And for what? Like, we live in the modern era, why does anyone need to travel from NY to Florida to Texas to California in a day?
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  I have a suspicion the reason why super wealthy people like say Musk but he isn't the only one hate subways and high speed rail is because they fly everywhere. You might like if you could get on the subway in Glen Park and be at lands end in half an hour. You might like getting on a high speed rail and being in LA in 4 hours. These guy will never ride a subway or take a train anywhere.
  - gonzoflip 2y ago
    I'm no Musk fanboy, but it is funny you mention him not liking subways or high speed rail because didn't he try to build a subterranean high speed rail?
    - AlexandrB 2y ago
      The hyperloop was a shit idea from day one and thus far no one has been able to make it work. It's also entirely possible that Elon Musk floated this as a distraction to stop the development of "regular" high speed rain in California[1]. The Las Vegas "loop"[2], on the other hand, is basically a parody of a subway - with a fraction of the capacity. > In July 2021, the peak passenger flow was recorded at 1,355 passengers per hour. As a comparison Toronto's subway can handle 28,000 passengers per hour[3] per direction or more. [1] https://www.jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460/ https://www.jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Lo... [3] https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-toronto-subway-station-ridership-2018 https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-toronto-subway-station-rid...
      - gonzoflip 2y ago
        Did I say it was a good idea? I was merely pointing out that there's evidence that he is not the best example for people that hate high-speed rails and subways. >Stop the development of high speed rail in California I thought that got funded, what happened?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - Gibbon1 2y ago
        You'll note to two things that ties the hyper loop and the Las Vegas Loop together is private cars. Don't discount that these guys find ordinary people to be scary and disgusting.
    - rasz 2y ago
      >didn't he try to build a subterranean high speed rail? _for cars_
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Many politicians campaigning for green energy (aka AOC) also fly on private jets everywhere so that they can fight the oligarchy - this behavior isn't restricted to wealthy businessmen alone.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      Depressingly, I think that's why a law to stop this behavior won't pass in the US. Wealthy and powerful people love their private flights. Doesn't mean that anyone engaging in this behavior should get a pass nor that we shouldn't keep advocating for such a tax.
    - drilbo 2y ago
      Maybe you shouldn't base your assumptions of the world on politically charged clickbait headlines... Did her and Bernie use a private jet? Quite possibly. Does that mean they fly "everywhere" on private jets? Certifiably false.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    LOL on an e-bike I can beat BART to SFO from Glen Park unless you time both to start at just the moment BART arrives instead of at a random moment. If you want a Glen Park to Lands End to take under 30 minutes, the cost would rival the Iraq War.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      Looks like the trains are running every 30 minutes. A super easy solution that doesn't cost the iraq war is adding new trains and running them every 15 minutes. You'd have to deal with lower occupancy trains as a result, which means it's not as cost efficient.
ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago
Ffs
michpoch 2y ago
What makes a jet private? Should Trump's Boegin 757 count as one? What if an airline is flying a jet with no passengers? Cargo jets?
- foobarchu 2y ago
  The same thing that differentiate a private car from public transportation or freight, I would think. This distinction isn't a particularly novel problem.
  - michpoch 2y ago
    We don't differentiate these in any significant way. Do buses in your country pay different rate for fuel? There are vans carrying 6 people on international routes in Europe, is this public transport? Private? Anyone can book it.
    - aceofspades19 1y ago
      Well actually, lots of places have special fuel for farm vehicles that are exempt from certain taxes. It's dyed a certain colour so if you get caught with that colour of fuel in your vehicle you can get in trouble. So its not a crazy thing to suggest that we tax different fuel at different rates.
almostnormal 2y ago
> Meanwhile jet fuel for private jets is (and remains) not taxed at all, even in the EU. Not correct. Fuel for private aviation is taxed, including jet fuel and avgas. However, there are very few "private" jets, most are operated by some company, and therefore not private. Jet-A1 for a truely privately operated C172 with a diesel engine is taxed.
sokoloff 2y ago
This is a common trope, but is incorrect, at least for the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_Sta...

Which is bonkers. If ever there was a thing that should be taxed it's jet fuel for private jets. 300% tax on private jet fuel would be reasonable. The emissions just to shuttle rich people from one side of the country to the next (For some, multiple times per day) is insane. You should need to be a billionaire just to afford flying private jets and it should still eat a significant portion of your income if that's what you choose to do. And for what? Like, we live in the modern era, why does anyone need to travel from NY to Florida to Texas to California in a day?

Gibbon1 2y ago
I have a suspicion the reason why super wealthy people like say Musk but he isn't the only one hate subways and high speed rail is because they fly everywhere. You might like if you could get on the subway in Glen Park and be at lands end in half an hour. You might like getting on a high speed rail and being in LA in 4 hours. These guy will never ride a subway or take a train anywhere.
- gonzoflip 2y ago
  I'm no Musk fanboy, but it is funny you mention him not liking subways or high speed rail because didn't he try to build a subterranean high speed rail?
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    The hyperloop was a shit idea from day one and thus far no one has been able to make it work. It's also entirely possible that Elon Musk floated this as a distraction to stop the development of "regular" high speed rain in California[1]. The Las Vegas "loop"[2], on the other hand, is basically a parody of a subway - with a fraction of the capacity. > In July 2021, the peak passenger flow was recorded at 1,355 passengers per hour. As a comparison Toronto's subway can handle 28,000 passengers per hour[3] per direction or more. [1] https://www.jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-california-high-spee-1849402460/ https://www.jalopnik.com/did-musk-propose-hyperloop-to-stop-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Convention_Center_Lo... [3] https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-toronto-subway-station-ridership-2018 https://dailyhive.com/toronto/ttc-toronto-subway-station-rid...
    - gonzoflip 2y ago
      Did I say it was a good idea? I was merely pointing out that there's evidence that he is not the best example for people that hate high-speed rails and subways. >Stop the development of high speed rail in California I thought that got funded, what happened?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - Gibbon1 2y ago
      You'll note to two things that ties the hyper loop and the Las Vegas Loop together is private cars. Don't discount that these guys find ordinary people to be scary and disgusting.
  - rasz 2y ago
    >didn't he try to build a subterranean high speed rail? _for cars_
- lenkite 2y ago
  Many politicians campaigning for green energy (aka AOC) also fly on private jets everywhere so that they can fight the oligarchy - this behavior isn't restricted to wealthy businessmen alone.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Depressingly, I think that's why a law to stop this behavior won't pass in the US. Wealthy and powerful people love their private flights. Doesn't mean that anyone engaging in this behavior should get a pass nor that we shouldn't keep advocating for such a tax.
  - drilbo 2y ago
    Maybe you shouldn't base your assumptions of the world on politically charged clickbait headlines... Did her and Bernie use a private jet? Quite possibly. Does that mean they fly "everywhere" on private jets? Certifiably false.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  LOL on an e-bike I can beat BART to SFO from Glen Park unless you time both to start at just the moment BART arrives instead of at a random moment. If you want a Glen Park to Lands End to take under 30 minutes, the cost would rival the Iraq War.
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Looks like the trains are running every 30 minutes. A super easy solution that doesn't cost the iraq war is adding new trains and running them every 15 minutes. You'd have to deal with lower occupancy trains as a result, which means it's not as cost efficient.

ikekkdcjkfke 2y ago

Ffs

michpoch 2y ago

What makes a jet private? Should Trump's Boegin 757 count as one? What if an airline is flying a jet with no passengers? Cargo jets?

foobarchu 2y ago
The same thing that differentiate a private car from public transportation or freight, I would think. This distinction isn't a particularly novel problem.
- michpoch 2y ago
  We don't differentiate these in any significant way. Do buses in your country pay different rate for fuel? There are vans carrying 6 people on international routes in Europe, is this public transport? Private? Anyone can book it.
  - aceofspades19 1y ago
    Well actually, lots of places have special fuel for farm vehicles that are exempt from certain taxes. It's dyed a certain colour so if you get caught with that colour of fuel in your vehicle you can get in trouble. So its not a crazy thing to suggest that we tax different fuel at different rates.

almostnormal 2y ago

> Meanwhile jet fuel for private jets is (and remains) not taxed at all, even in the EU. Not correct. Fuel for private aviation is taxed, including jet fuel and avgas. However, there are very few "private" jets, most are operated by some company, and therefore not private. Jet-A1 for a truely privately operated C172 with a diesel engine is taxed.

sokoloff 2y ago

This is a common trope, but is incorrect, at least for the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_Sta...