4 ms·

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.

dionian 2y ago
there is usually only one exit to a courtroom, in the back
- crooked-v 2y ago
  No, there are usually several entrances/exits, such as for jurors, prisoners, judge's chambers, and the general public.
lolinder 2y ago
What's being alleged is that she deliberately escorted the man out through an exit that is not usually made available to members of the public, instead of allowing him to leave through the regular door that would likely have put him right into the hands of ICE. If that was done with the intent of helping him evade arrest (which, if the story above is accurate, seems likely), it seems very reasonable to charge her with obstruction. None of that is to say that what she did was morally wrong—often the law and morality are at odds.
- phendrenad2 2y ago
  You bring up an important point - laws and morality are not equivalent, and often differ. I wish people on HN would get that through their thick skulls and stop downvoting people for saying that a law was broken, if they think the law is invalid. The downvote button is not the ballot box where you vote on which laws you support.
lurk2 2y ago
United States Code, Title 8, § 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) (2023) > (1)(A) Any person who […] > (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation; […] > shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B). https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/USCODE-2023-title8.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/...
- ein0p 2y ago
  A case study on media narrative peddling: https://www.koat.com/article/las-cruces-former-judge-allegations-gang-new-mexico/64583129 https://www.koat.com/article/las-cruces-former-judge-allegat... Original title: "Former New Mexico judge and wife arrested by ICE". It's as though he wasn't an active judge while harboring an alleged Tren De Aragua gang member. Protip: believe absolutely nothing you read in mainstream news sources on any even remotely political topic. Read between the lines, sort of like people used to read Pravda in the Soviet Union.
  - exe34 2y ago
    > Read between the lines, sort of like people used to read Pravda in the Soviet Union. To be fair, you're not far off at this point.
  - gosub100 2y ago
    This is why I don't believe 90% of what they say about Trump. As soon as he took office in 2017 it was so obvious that MSM was paid to absolutely destroy him. Then in 2021 suddenly everyone single problem wasn't due to the president anymore.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      I woke up to this in 2016 when theretofore beloved public figure Donald Trump turned into literally Hitler immediately after he descended down that elevator in the Trump tower, all without changing a single opinion he'd ever held. And it's been unrelenting ever since.
      - gosub100 2y ago
        and he was a former democrat! I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm not saying he's sophisticated, or that he hasn't said some stupid things. No way, there are way better republican candidates. But TDS is real.
- jasonlotito 2y ago
xyzzy9563 2y ago
It's a crime to harbor or aid illegals in evading federal authorities. So this is a legal obligation of every person.
- neilpointer 2y ago
  it's also unconstitutional to deny people due process but that's clearly been disregarded by the current administration. Reap what you sow.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Except that the authorities didn't have a valid warrant, signed by a judge, to arrest someone. (It's not a crime to aid illegals if the authorities don't have a valid warrant.)
  - Jensson 2y ago
    An administrative warrant is still valid for arrest, it doesn't need to be signed by a judge. If you think it needs to be then laws needs to be changed, but that is how laws are right now.
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      It's not valid for arrest on private premises, like a courthouse. Only out in public. So the judge is no more "obstructing justice" than if I refuse to open the door to let ICE agents in to arrest someone with an administrative warrant, and then that person leaves out the back door. ICE should have obtained a judicial warrant, but they didn't. That's their fault.
- DrillShopper 2y ago
  [flagged]

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.

dionian 2y ago

there is usually only one exit to a courtroom, in the back

crooked-v 2y ago
No, there are usually several entrances/exits, such as for jurors, prisoners, judge's chambers, and the general public.

lolinder 2y ago

What's being alleged is that she deliberately escorted the man out through an exit that is not usually made available to members of the public, instead of allowing him to leave through the regular door that would likely have put him right into the hands of ICE. If that was done with the intent of helping him evade arrest (which, if the story above is accurate, seems likely), it seems very reasonable to charge her with obstruction. None of that is to say that what she did was morally wrong—often the law and morality are at odds.

phendrenad2 2y ago
You bring up an important point - laws and morality are not equivalent, and often differ. I wish people on HN would get that through their thick skulls and stop downvoting people for saying that a law was broken, if they think the law is invalid. The downvote button is not the ballot box where you vote on which laws you support.

lurk2 2y ago

United States Code, Title 8, § 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) (2023) > (1)(A) Any person who […] > (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation; […] > shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B). https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/USCODE-2023-title8.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/...

ein0p 2y ago
A case study on media narrative peddling: https://www.koat.com/article/las-cruces-former-judge-allegations-gang-new-mexico/64583129 https://www.koat.com/article/las-cruces-former-judge-allegat... Original title: "Former New Mexico judge and wife arrested by ICE". It's as though he wasn't an active judge while harboring an alleged Tren De Aragua gang member. Protip: believe absolutely nothing you read in mainstream news sources on any even remotely political topic. Read between the lines, sort of like people used to read Pravda in the Soviet Union.
- exe34 2y ago
  > Read between the lines, sort of like people used to read Pravda in the Soviet Union. To be fair, you're not far off at this point.
- gosub100 2y ago
  This is why I don't believe 90% of what they say about Trump. As soon as he took office in 2017 it was so obvious that MSM was paid to absolutely destroy him. Then in 2021 suddenly everyone single problem wasn't due to the president anymore.
  - ein0p 2y ago
    I woke up to this in 2016 when theretofore beloved public figure Donald Trump turned into literally Hitler immediately after he descended down that elevator in the Trump tower, all without changing a single opinion he'd ever held. And it's been unrelenting ever since.
    - gosub100 2y ago
      and he was a former democrat! I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm not saying he's sophisticated, or that he hasn't said some stupid things. No way, there are way better republican candidates. But TDS is real.
jasonlotito 2y ago

xyzzy9563 2y ago

It's a crime to harbor or aid illegals in evading federal authorities. So this is a legal obligation of every person.

neilpointer 2y ago
it's also unconstitutional to deny people due process but that's clearly been disregarded by the current administration. Reap what you sow.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Except that the authorities didn't have a valid warrant, signed by a judge, to arrest someone. (It's not a crime to aid illegals if the authorities don't have a valid warrant.)
- Jensson 2y ago
  An administrative warrant is still valid for arrest, it doesn't need to be signed by a judge. If you think it needs to be then laws needs to be changed, but that is how laws are right now.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    It's not valid for arrest on private premises, like a courthouse. Only out in public. So the judge is no more "obstructing justice" than if I refuse to open the door to let ICE agents in to arrest someone with an administrative warrant, and then that person leaves out the back door. ICE should have obtained a judicial warrant, but they didn't. That's their fault.
DrillShopper 2y ago
[flagged]