8 ms·

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("ju

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the Chief Judge’s office. For example, the courtroom deputy recalled that upon the courtroom deputy’s return to the courtroom,defense counsel for Flores-Ruiz was talking to the clerk, and Flores-Ruiz was seated in the jury box, rather than in the gallery. The courtroom deputy believed that counsel and the clerk were having an off-the-record conversation to pick the next court date. Defense counsel and Flores-Ruizthen walked toward each other and toward the public courtroom exit. The courtroom deputy then saw Judge DUGAN get up and heard Judge DUGAN say something like “Wait, come with me.” Despite having been advised of the administrative warrant for the arrest of Flores-Ruiz, Judge DUGAN then escorted Flores-Ruiz and his counsel out of the courtroom through the “jury door,” which leads to a nonpublic area of the courthouse. These events were also unusual for two reasons.First, the courtroom deputy had previously heard Judge DUGAN direct people not to sit in the jury box because it was exclusively for the jury’s use. Second, according to the courtroom deputy, only deputies, juries, court staff, and in-custody defendants being escorted by deputies used the back jury door. Defense attorneys and defendants who were not in custody never used the jury door." [1]: https://apnews.com/article/immigration-judge-arrested-7997186bbca5730e70a25f2347e631f6 https://apnews.com/article/immigration-judge-arrested-799718...

euroderf 1y ago
There has to be precedents in case law for how to assess this.
- trollied 1y ago
  You might want to read this https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--history--and-the-deep-country https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--h...
crooked-v 1y ago
I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.
- dionian 1y ago
  there is usually only one exit to a courtroom, in the back
  - crooked-v 1y ago
    No, there are usually several entrances/exits, such as for jurors, prisoners, judge's chambers, and the general public.
- lolinder 1y ago
  What's being alleged is that she deliberately escorted the man out through an exit that is not usually made available to members of the public, instead of allowing him to leave through the regular door that would likely have put him right into the hands of ICE. If that was done with the intent of helping him evade arrest (which, if the story above is accurate, seems likely), it seems very reasonable to charge her with obstruction. None of that is to say that what she did was morally wrong—often the law and morality are at odds.
  - phendrenad2 1y ago
    You bring up an important point - laws and morality are not equivalent, and often differ. I wish people on HN would get that through their thick skulls and stop downvoting people for saying that a law was broken, if they think the law is invalid. The downvote button is not the ballot box where you vote on which laws you support.
- lurk2 1y ago
  United States Code, Title 8, § 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) (2023) > (1)(A) Any person who […] > (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation; […] > shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B). https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/USCODE-2023-title8.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/...
xpe 1y ago
See also section D that says "Judge DUGAN escorts Flores-Ruiz through a “jury door” to avoid his arrest" in https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.111629/gov.uscourts.wied.111629.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.11... labeled "Case 2:25-mj-00397-SCD Filed 04/24/25" (13 pages)
Miner49er 1y ago
How in the world is this an arrestable offense. Escorting someone out of a room?
- lolinder 1y ago
  If it can be proven that she deliberately escorted the person through the non-public exit to the courtroom with the intent of helping them evade arrest by officers with a warrant who were waiting outside at the other entrance, how would that not be an arrestable offence? We're extremely light on facts right now, so I'm not taking the above quoted story at face value, but if one were to take it at face value it seems pretty clear cut.
  - Miner49er 1y ago
    I guess I would hope it takes more then that to rise to the level of obstruction. Additionally, you have to prove intent, and unless the judge was careless, I doubt they will ever be able to do that. I'd bet the prosecution knows this, I don't think they expect the charges to stick. It seems this arrest was done to send a message. More evidence of that is that typically in this kind of case they would invite her to show up somewhere to accept process, not be arrested like a common criminal.
  - AIPedant 1y ago
    The part that makes it not so clear cut is that this is really a constitutional issue rather than a criminal one. It is not credible that the judge was trying to ensure the man could keep living in the US undocumented. She was defending her court. From a judge's POV, arresting a plantiff/defendant in the middle of a trial is a violation of their right to a trial and impedes local prosecutors' abilities to seek justice. Ultimately this seems like Trump asserting that the federal executive branch has unfettered veto authority over local judicial branches. That doesn't sit well with me.
    - lolinder 1y ago
      The charges against her are not about her behavior during her court, they're about what happened once the court was adjourned and the defendant was starting to leave. She successfully defended the process within her own courtroom and it's alleged that she went a step further in securing the defendant from their impending arrest on an unrelated charge. There's definitely a conversation to be had about whether people should be safe from immigration law enforcement while within a courthouse, but at the moment as I understand it that is not a protection that exists.
bix6 1y ago
From reading the affidavit it’s clear to me there is a lot of uncertainty and confusion around these situations. Clearly the judges are upset with ICE making arrests in the public spaces within the court hall while ICE views it as the perfect place since the defendant will be unarmed. This was an administrative warrant and IANAL but doesn’t that not require local cooperation e.g the judge is in her right to not help or comply with the warrant?
dang 1y ago
Thanks - I've changed the URL to that article from https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/04/25/wisconsin-judge-arrest-fbi-ice-immigration-enforcement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/04/25/... above.

euroderf 1y ago

There has to be precedents in case law for how to assess this.

trollied 1y ago
You might want to read this https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--history--and-the-deep-country https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--h...

crooked-v 1y ago

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.

dionian 1y ago
there is usually only one exit to a courtroom, in the back
- crooked-v 1y ago
  No, there are usually several entrances/exits, such as for jurors, prisoners, judge's chambers, and the general public.
lolinder 1y ago
What's being alleged is that she deliberately escorted the man out through an exit that is not usually made available to members of the public, instead of allowing him to leave through the regular door that would likely have put him right into the hands of ICE. If that was done with the intent of helping him evade arrest (which, if the story above is accurate, seems likely), it seems very reasonable to charge her with obstruction. None of that is to say that what she did was morally wrong—often the law and morality are at odds.
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  You bring up an important point - laws and morality are not equivalent, and often differ. I wish people on HN would get that through their thick skulls and stop downvoting people for saying that a law was broken, if they think the law is invalid. The downvote button is not the ballot box where you vote on which laws you support.
lurk2 1y ago
United States Code, Title 8, § 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) (2023) > (1)(A) Any person who […] > (iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation; […] > shall be punished as provided in subparagraph (B). https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/USCODE-2023-title8.htm https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2023-title8/html/...

xpe 1y ago

See also section D that says "Judge DUGAN escorts Flores-Ruiz through a “jury door” to avoid his arrest" in https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.111629/gov.uscourts.wied.111629.1.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.11... labeled "Case 2:25-mj-00397-SCD Filed 04/24/25" (13 pages)

Miner49er 1y ago

How in the world is this an arrestable offense. Escorting someone out of a room?

lolinder 1y ago
If it can be proven that she deliberately escorted the person through the non-public exit to the courtroom with the intent of helping them evade arrest by officers with a warrant who were waiting outside at the other entrance, how would that not be an arrestable offence? We're extremely light on facts right now, so I'm not taking the above quoted story at face value, but if one were to take it at face value it seems pretty clear cut.
- Miner49er 1y ago
  I guess I would hope it takes more then that to rise to the level of obstruction. Additionally, you have to prove intent, and unless the judge was careless, I doubt they will ever be able to do that. I'd bet the prosecution knows this, I don't think they expect the charges to stick. It seems this arrest was done to send a message. More evidence of that is that typically in this kind of case they would invite her to show up somewhere to accept process, not be arrested like a common criminal.
- AIPedant 1y ago
  The part that makes it not so clear cut is that this is really a constitutional issue rather than a criminal one. It is not credible that the judge was trying to ensure the man could keep living in the US undocumented. She was defending her court. From a judge's POV, arresting a plantiff/defendant in the middle of a trial is a violation of their right to a trial and impedes local prosecutors' abilities to seek justice. Ultimately this seems like Trump asserting that the federal executive branch has unfettered veto authority over local judicial branches. That doesn't sit well with me.
  - lolinder 1y ago
    The charges against her are not about her behavior during her court, they're about what happened once the court was adjourned and the defendant was starting to leave. She successfully defended the process within her own courtroom and it's alleged that she went a step further in securing the defendant from their impending arrest on an unrelated charge. There's definitely a conversation to be had about whether people should be safe from immigration law enforcement while within a courthouse, but at the moment as I understand it that is not a protection that exists.

bix6 1y ago

From reading the affidavit it’s clear to me there is a lot of uncertainty and confusion around these situations. Clearly the judges are upset with ICE making arrests in the public spaces within the court hall while ICE views it as the perfect place since the defendant will be unarmed. This was an administrative warrant and IANAL but doesn’t that not require local cooperation e.g the judge is in her right to not help or comply with the warrant?

dang 1y ago

Thanks - I've changed the URL to that article from https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/04/25/wisconsin-judge-arrest-fbi-ice-immigration-enforcement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/04/25/... above.