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> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could int

> I.e. the ICE agents showed up in the middle of a court proceeding, and the judge said they'd need to get permission from the chief judge before they could interrupt proceedings. The judge then didn't stop the defendant from leaving once the proceeding was done. Since there were multiple agents (the reports and Patel's post all say "agents" plural) they could have left one at the courtroom, or outside, rather than all going away. Then there'd have been no chase and no issue. The question is if the judge should have held the man or not for the agents who chose to leave no one behind to take him into custody after the proceeding finished.

jandrese 2y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the agents are required to stay together when doing deportation arrests because they don't know when an immigrant might revert to their demon form and incapacitate a lone officer.
- dylan604 2y ago
  while funny, there is a reason for federals coming in pairs so they can act as a witness for the other with things like lying to a federal officer. this doesn't sound like the plural just meant 2 here, so it really does come across as Keystone Cops level of falling over themselves to not leave behind someone to keep an eye on their subject.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    I'd bet on malicious compliance so they can show that their good and honest work is being impeded by elitist judges.
csomar 2y ago
> The question is if the judge should have held the man This is bananas. The judges (or anyone else for that matter) should not be able to hold this man (or any other man) without an arrest warrant.
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  ICE doesn't issue warrants, because they can't. Immingration matters aren't criminal, and ICE are not law enforcement, though they certainly love to cosplay as some sort of mix between law enforcement and military. That's why ICE has to "ask" law enforcement to hold on to someone who gets arrested on another matter, and why plenty of police departments tell them to go pound sand.
  - prepend 2y ago
    ICE does issue warrants [0]. Some immigration matters are criminal. There are specific immigration law enforcement officers that execute warrants. Maybe what you mean is that ICE warrants grant different authorities than an arrest warrant (ie, can’t enter private property to execute). [0] https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warrants_summary.pdf https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warra... https://www.ilrc.org/resources/annotated-ice-administrative-warrants-2017 https://www.ilrc.org/resources/annotated-ice-administrative-...
KennyBlanken 2y ago
Immigration violations are not criminal matters, they're civil. Further, they're federal, not state. You cannot be held by law enforcement or the judiciary for being accused of a civil violation.
- prepend 2y ago
  I thought they were misdemeanor crimes [0] punishable by jail time. So they are crimes, but not huge. I’m not a lawyer or a law enforcement officer, but I thought that local law enforcement can certainly hold someone charged with a federal crime. Eg, if someone commits the federal crime of kidnapping, then local cops can detain that person until transferred to FBI. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325
analog31 2y ago
For all the judge could have known, the agents weren't coming back.
whats_a_quasar 2y ago
To your question - A state judge cannot be required to hold someone on behalf of federal agents. That's federalism 101 and settled law. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--history--and-the-deep-country https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--h...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 542354234235 2y ago
  But judges can be arrested for doing nothing illegal to intimidate and bully them into not acting based on settled law.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
The claim is different. Agents with an arrest warrant waited in the public hallway, as asked and required by the judges. The judge skipped the hearing for the target and [directed] them out a private back door in an attempt to prevent arrest, leading to a foot chase before apprehension. Edit: directed, not escorted
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  That information came out after my comment, and also long after the edit window. The updated FBI claim is certainly more damning for the judge (actively impeding their efforts).

jandrese 2y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if the agents are required to stay together when doing deportation arrests because they don't know when an immigrant might revert to their demon form and incapacitate a lone officer.

dylan604 2y ago
while funny, there is a reason for federals coming in pairs so they can act as a witness for the other with things like lying to a federal officer. this doesn't sound like the plural just meant 2 here, so it really does come across as Keystone Cops level of falling over themselves to not leave behind someone to keep an eye on their subject.
- wat10000 2y ago
  I'd bet on malicious compliance so they can show that their good and honest work is being impeded by elitist judges.

csomar 2y ago

> The question is if the judge should have held the man This is bananas. The judges (or anyone else for that matter) should not be able to hold this man (or any other man) without an arrest warrant.

KennyBlanken 2y ago
ICE doesn't issue warrants, because they can't. Immingration matters aren't criminal, and ICE are not law enforcement, though they certainly love to cosplay as some sort of mix between law enforcement and military. That's why ICE has to "ask" law enforcement to hold on to someone who gets arrested on another matter, and why plenty of police departments tell them to go pound sand.
- prepend 2y ago
  ICE does issue warrants [0]. Some immigration matters are criminal. There are specific immigration law enforcement officers that execute warrants. Maybe what you mean is that ICE warrants grant different authorities than an arrest warrant (ie, can’t enter private property to execute). [0] https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warrants_summary.pdf https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/files/resources/ice_warra... https://www.ilrc.org/resources/annotated-ice-administrative-warrants-2017 https://www.ilrc.org/resources/annotated-ice-administrative-...

KennyBlanken 2y ago

Immigration violations are not criminal matters, they're civil. Further, they're federal, not state. You cannot be held by law enforcement or the judiciary for being accused of a civil violation.

prepend 2y ago
I thought they were misdemeanor crimes [0] punishable by jail time. So they are crimes, but not huge. I’m not a lawyer or a law enforcement officer, but I thought that local law enforcement can certainly hold someone charged with a federal crime. Eg, if someone commits the federal crime of kidnapping, then local cops can detain that person until transferred to FBI. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325

analog31 2y ago

For all the judge could have known, the agents weren't coming back.

whats_a_quasar 2y ago

To your question - A state judge cannot be required to hold someone on behalf of federal agents. That's federalism 101 and settled law. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--history--and-the-deep-country https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/sanctuary--supremacy--h...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
542354234235 2y ago
But judges can be arrested for doing nothing illegal to intimidate and bully them into not acting based on settled law.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

The claim is different. Agents with an arrest warrant waited in the public hallway, as asked and required by the judges. The judge skipped the hearing for the target and [directed] them out a private back door in an attempt to prevent arrest, leading to a foot chase before apprehension. Edit: directed, not escorted

Jtsummers 2y ago
That information came out after my comment, and also long after the edit window. The updated FBI claim is certainly more damning for the judge (actively impeding their efforts).