4 ms·

Would it not be better to have a peaceful, civil, lawful, separation of the two different Americas than for us to rigidly cling to an idea of a "United" States

Would it not be better to have a peaceful, civil, lawful, separation of the two different Americas than for us to rigidly cling to an idea of a "United" States that no longer represents reality? We're clearly living in two different realities already, brought about the partisan media (on both sides) willfully and deliberately misrepresenting reality to serve the interests of their shadowy trillion-dollar corporate conglomerates, amplified by the digital echo chambers brought about other secretive, manipulative trillion-dollar corporate conglomerates. Is it seriously better to let the entire federal government collapse, leaving a power void in it's wake, than to have two Americas with freedom of movement, free trade, etc?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
JKCalhoun 2y ago
Maybe you're a fan of "Texit".
- anonym29 2y ago
  Good guess. I'm big on "marketplace of ideas", where each state has far greater control of public policy (which is overwhelmingly federalized right now). If California wants to show the world how good single-payer healthcare and UBI could be, let them. If New York wants to disarm every resident and send police around to confiscate firearms, let them. If Texas wants to ban abortion within the state for residents, let them. Let each state have an opportunity to show the world how good or bad their policy positions are. Diversity of policy + freedom of choice. My big caveats would be freedom of movement, no criminalizing activity that occurs out of state, free trade, freedom of association (no Alabama, you cannot criminalize trade with Massachusets), etc. If you don't like California, you should be free to leave California (without fear of California retroactively increasing punitive tax enforcement against you), and if you don't like Texas, you should be free to leave Texas (even if just to get an abortion in another state and then come back, without fear of arrest or imprisonment). We are not one identical set of people with one identical culture, one identical set of values, one identical sense of right and wrong. We're 330,000,000+ unique individuals who cluster together, mainly around people like us. Good gun laws for rural Montana are not necessarily good gun laws for New York City. We should stop pretending that the people in DC always know best for everyone, everywhere. Local communities know what is best for themselves. The more decentralized, the better.
GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
There's no way to gerrymander a border that splits America into two geographically distinct countries with strong majority representation of whatever binary you think exists. By that I mean, there are communists in Kentucky and Proud Boys in Hawaii. If we seriously tried to split in two, it'd be like post-colonial India and Pakistan with worse weapons. regardless, this idea is a distraction from the problem of wealth accumulation and the erosion of representative politics through private funding.
- anonym29 2y ago
  I'm all for corporate death penalty or forced divestiture for every company with a $1T+ market cap. Fuck Apple, Nvidia, Amazon, Microsoft, Alphabet, Meta, Tesla, Broadcom, and Berkshire Hathaway. The more decentralization the better.
rchaud 2y ago
Sure, history is after all awash in examples of peaceful secessions where everybody agreed to not question each others' borders again. Korea, India, Algeria, the Soviet Union, Palestine..... /s
sylens 2y ago
How would you pull this off when the split seems pretty divided between city/suburban and more rural areas? Does everybody have to airlift their goods everywhere?
patrickmay 2y ago
There aren't just two choices. My neighbor on one side voted for Trump, the one down the street voted for Harris, and I voted for Oliver. The problem is the concentration of federal power generally and executive power specifically in this administration. Decrease the size and scope of government, particularly at the national level, and there's a lot less to argue about.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

JKCalhoun 2y ago

Maybe you're a fan of "Texit".

anonym29 2y ago
Good guess. I'm big on "marketplace of ideas", where each state has far greater control of public policy (which is overwhelmingly federalized right now). If California wants to show the world how good single-payer healthcare and UBI could be, let them. If New York wants to disarm every resident and send police around to confiscate firearms, let them. If Texas wants to ban abortion within the state for residents, let them. Let each state have an opportunity to show the world how good or bad their policy positions are. Diversity of policy + freedom of choice. My big caveats would be freedom of movement, no criminalizing activity that occurs out of state, free trade, freedom of association (no Alabama, you cannot criminalize trade with Massachusets), etc. If you don't like California, you should be free to leave California (without fear of California retroactively increasing punitive tax enforcement against you), and if you don't like Texas, you should be free to leave Texas (even if just to get an abortion in another state and then come back, without fear of arrest or imprisonment). We are not one identical set of people with one identical culture, one identical set of values, one identical sense of right and wrong. We're 330,000,000+ unique individuals who cluster together, mainly around people like us. Good gun laws for rural Montana are not necessarily good gun laws for New York City. We should stop pretending that the people in DC always know best for everyone, everywhere. Local communities know what is best for themselves. The more decentralized, the better.

GuinansEyebrows 2y ago

There's no way to gerrymander a border that splits America into two geographically distinct countries with strong majority representation of whatever binary you think exists. By that I mean, there are communists in Kentucky and Proud Boys in Hawaii. If we seriously tried to split in two, it'd be like post-colonial India and Pakistan with worse weapons. regardless, this idea is a distraction from the problem of wealth accumulation and the erosion of representative politics through private funding.

anonym29 2y ago
I'm all for corporate death penalty or forced divestiture for every company with a $1T+ market cap. Fuck Apple, Nvidia, Amazon, Microsoft, Alphabet, Meta, Tesla, Broadcom, and Berkshire Hathaway. The more decentralization the better.

rchaud 2y ago

Sure, history is after all awash in examples of peaceful secessions where everybody agreed to not question each others' borders again. Korea, India, Algeria, the Soviet Union, Palestine..... /s

sylens 2y ago

How would you pull this off when the split seems pretty divided between city/suburban and more rural areas? Does everybody have to airlift their goods everywhere?

patrickmay 2y ago

There aren't just two choices. My neighbor on one side voted for Trump, the one down the street voted for Harris, and I voted for Oliver. The problem is the concentration of federal power generally and executive power specifically in this administration. Decrease the size and scope of government, particularly at the national level, and there's a lot less to argue about.