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Why are deportations of illegal immigrants bad? Come here legally and be properly vetted. The law is dead if states defy it by refusing to allow federal agent

by _mlbt 1y ago

Why are deportations of illegal immigrants bad? Come here legally and be properly vetted. The law is dead if states defy it by refusing to allow federal agents to enforce immigration law. This whole stance is absolute madness.

whoknowsidont 1y ago
I don't think anyone has that position, so not sure what you're responding to.
eli_gottlieb 1y ago
Nothing wrong with deporting illegal immigrants through legal channels that allow for due process and follow the rulings of immigration courts. Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens.
- _mlbt 1y ago
  > Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens. I must have missed that, when did that happen?
  - alistairSH 1y ago
    It's been all over the news. Here's one incident: https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/us/lopez-gomez-citizen-detained-ice-florida/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/us/lopez-gomez-citizen-detain...
    - _mlbt 1y ago
      Thank you, I hadn’t come across this news story yet! Believe it or not, I just double checked and it’s not in my Apple News feed at all. It sounds like there was a language barrier and he misidentified himself as being in the country illegally. That’s very unfortunate that he was detained for that misunderstanding.
      - jibal 1y ago
        No, BP lied.
  - whoknowsidont 1y ago
    You missed one of the biggest news stories that has been running for months across every available medium (television, radio, internet, even here on HN)? You want to shed some light on how that's possible, especially in the context of you commenting on this thread?
    - _mlbt 1y ago
      I usually get my left leaning news stories from Apple News and my right leaning news from the Daily Wire. I didn’t see this story on any of my usual sources.
stouset 1y ago
Many of the people currently being stripped of their rights and deported are documented, legal visa and green card holders or documented and legal asylum seekers. Even illegal immigrants need to be deported through due process. That’s the entire part where the government is supposed to demonstrate that they are here illegally. We are currently skipping that part and essentially granting the executive branch unilateral authority to deport anyone to foreign labor camps as long as the press secretary says the words “illegal immigrant” or “MS-13”. To make things even worse, these deportations are being overtly politically targeted. If you’re here on a legal visa and speak against this administration, they are making it clear that they will strip you of your visa and disappear you without a second thought and without an opportunity to defend yourself. You are correct that the law is dead. You are embarrassingly mistaken about who killed it.
unsnap_biceps 1y ago
Two wrongs don't make a right. I am for reducing illegal immigration, but I am firmly against how ICE/this admin is doing it and I feel that the states should be pushing back against the attacks on due process.
alistairSH 1y ago
The problem isn't deporting illegal immigrants. The problem(s) are... - lack of due process (Constitution doesn't distinguish between legal and illegal residents) - leading to deportation of legal residents (Garcia case from MD) - sending illegal immigrants to a jail that's hosted abroad is NOT deportation in the normal sense of the word - it closer to our holding of detainees at Gitmo post-9/11.
- stouset 1y ago
  I wish people would stop trying to argue that the constitution affords due process to both legal and illegal residents like you are doing here. It does, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. If all the government has to do is say “they’re here illegally” to get a free pass to do whatever they want to someone, then even legal residents don’t have rights. Due process is the entire mechanism behind which the government can establish something like illegal residency. As soon as you say Group A has the right to a trial and Group B doesn’t, calling someone a member of Group B is all it takes to subvert the entire legal process.
  - alistairSH 1y ago
    Isn't that what I just said? We already have the legal processes in place (based on the Constitution) to deport illegals in the correct (legal, safe, etc) way. The Trump administration is ignoring that existing process to score political points with their political base. Couple that with their attempted demonization of the judicial branch and it's a recipe for a "first they came for the socialists..." situation.
    - stouset 1y ago
      Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to necessarily single you out. I just hear the argument that the constitution gives both illegal and legal residents that right and conservatives simply respond that illegals shouldn’t have rights and that’s that. It needs to be hammered in that due process is necessary even to establish the legality of their residency in the first place, otherwise the government can disappear whoever they want as long as they invoke the illegal immigrant boogeyman.
kashunstva 1y ago
1. It is being done without due process. 2. One high-profile mistake has already been made; and a man is now languishing in a Salvadoran prison. 3. The conditions of detention are often horrendous. I would support upholding their laws if they executed them a shred of human decency and empathy.
mola 1y ago
Due process
surfaceofthesun 1y ago
This is a perfectly reasonable response during normal presidential administrations. However, this administration is credibly[1] accused of avoiding due process via the current deportation process. I'll include a quote from the (9-0!) April 10th Supreme Court ruling[1] concerning the removal of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia from the United States to El Salvador. > The Government’s argument, moreover, implies that it could deport and incarcerate any person, including U. S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene. Without a chance to demonstrate that someone is in the US legally (i.e., Due Process), the defense of this action can be that it's necessary to prevent the rendition of US citizens to El Salvador or elsewhere. That might sound crazy, but we already have an example of a US citizen being held in custody per an ICE request, despite having proof of being born in the US[2]. If both practices continue, we'll ultimately see the intersection at some point. --- [1] -- https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf [2] -- https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-u-s-citizen-was-held-for-pickup-by-ice-despite-proof-he-was-born-in-the-country https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-u-s-citizen-was-held...
jibal 1y ago
Why is attacking a strawman bad?

by _mlbt 1y ago

whoknowsidont 1y ago

I don't think anyone has that position, so not sure what you're responding to.

eli_gottlieb 1y ago

Nothing wrong with deporting illegal immigrants through legal channels that allow for due process and follow the rulings of immigration courts. Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens.

_mlbt 1y ago
> Something very wrong with sending deportation notices or trying to sic immigration enforcement on American citizens. I must have missed that, when did that happen?
- alistairSH 1y ago
  It's been all over the news. Here's one incident: https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/us/lopez-gomez-citizen-detained-ice-florida/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/17/us/lopez-gomez-citizen-detain...
  - _mlbt 1y ago
    Thank you, I hadn’t come across this news story yet! Believe it or not, I just double checked and it’s not in my Apple News feed at all. It sounds like there was a language barrier and he misidentified himself as being in the country illegally. That’s very unfortunate that he was detained for that misunderstanding.
    - jibal 1y ago
      No, BP lied.
- whoknowsidont 1y ago
  You missed one of the biggest news stories that has been running for months across every available medium (television, radio, internet, even here on HN)? You want to shed some light on how that's possible, especially in the context of you commenting on this thread?
  - _mlbt 1y ago
    I usually get my left leaning news stories from Apple News and my right leaning news from the Daily Wire. I didn’t see this story on any of my usual sources.

stouset 1y ago

Many of the people currently being stripped of their rights and deported are documented, legal visa and green card holders or documented and legal asylum seekers. Even illegal immigrants need to be deported through due process. That’s the entire part where the government is supposed to demonstrate that they are here illegally. We are currently skipping that part and essentially granting the executive branch unilateral authority to deport anyone to foreign labor camps as long as the press secretary says the words “illegal immigrant” or “MS-13”. To make things even worse, these deportations are being overtly politically targeted. If you’re here on a legal visa and speak against this administration, they are making it clear that they will strip you of your visa and disappear you without a second thought and without an opportunity to defend yourself. You are correct that the law is dead. You are embarrassingly mistaken about who killed it.

unsnap_biceps 1y ago

Two wrongs don't make a right. I am for reducing illegal immigration, but I am firmly against how ICE/this admin is doing it and I feel that the states should be pushing back against the attacks on due process.

alistairSH 1y ago

The problem isn't deporting illegal immigrants. The problem(s) are... - lack of due process (Constitution doesn't distinguish between legal and illegal residents) - leading to deportation of legal residents (Garcia case from MD) - sending illegal immigrants to a jail that's hosted abroad is NOT deportation in the normal sense of the word - it closer to our holding of detainees at Gitmo post-9/11.

stouset 1y ago
I wish people would stop trying to argue that the constitution affords due process to both legal and illegal residents like you are doing here. It does, but that’s missing the forest for the trees. If all the government has to do is say “they’re here illegally” to get a free pass to do whatever they want to someone, then even legal residents don’t have rights. Due process is the entire mechanism behind which the government can establish something like illegal residency. As soon as you say Group A has the right to a trial and Group B doesn’t, calling someone a member of Group B is all it takes to subvert the entire legal process.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Isn't that what I just said? We already have the legal processes in place (based on the Constitution) to deport illegals in the correct (legal, safe, etc) way. The Trump administration is ignoring that existing process to score political points with their political base. Couple that with their attempted demonization of the judicial branch and it's a recipe for a "first they came for the socialists..." situation.
  - stouset 1y ago
    Yeah, sorry, I didn’t mean to necessarily single you out. I just hear the argument that the constitution gives both illegal and legal residents that right and conservatives simply respond that illegals shouldn’t have rights and that’s that. It needs to be hammered in that due process is necessary even to establish the legality of their residency in the first place, otherwise the government can disappear whoever they want as long as they invoke the illegal immigrant boogeyman.

kashunstva 1y ago

1. It is being done without due process. 2. One high-profile mistake has already been made; and a man is now languishing in a Salvadoran prison. 3. The conditions of detention are often horrendous. I would support upholding their laws if they executed them a shred of human decency and empathy.

mola 1y ago

Due process

surfaceofthesun 1y ago

This is a perfectly reasonable response during normal presidential administrations. However, this administration is credibly[1] accused of avoiding due process via the current deportation process. I'll include a quote from the (9-0!) April 10th Supreme Court ruling[1] concerning the removal of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia from the United States to El Salvador. > The Government’s argument, moreover, implies that it could deport and incarcerate any person, including U. S. citizens, without legal consequence, so long as it does so before a court can intervene. Without a chance to demonstrate that someone is in the US legally (i.e., Due Process), the defense of this action can be that it's necessary to prevent the rendition of US citizens to El Salvador or elsewhere. That might sound crazy, but we already have an example of a US citizen being held in custody per an ICE request, despite having proof of being born in the US[2]. If both practices continue, we'll ultimately see the intersection at some point. --- [1] -- https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf [2] -- https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-u-s-citizen-was-held-for-pickup-by-ice-despite-proof-he-was-born-in-the-country https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/a-u-s-citizen-was-held...

jibal 1y ago

Why is attacking a strawman bad?