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> There is a good chance that there will be a generational skill atrophy in the future We already see this today: a lot of young people do not know how to type

> There is a good chance that there will be a generational skill atrophy in the future We already see this today: a lot of young people do not know how to type in keyboards, how to write in word processors, how to save files, etc. A significant part of a new generation is having to be trained on basic computer things same as our grandparents did. It's very intersting how "tech savvy" and "tech compentent" are two different things.

bitwize 1y ago
Jaron Lanier was a critic of the view that files were somehow an essential part of computing: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/01/08/jaron-lanier/gory-antigora-illusions-capitalism-computers/ https://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/01/08/jaron-lanier/gory-an... Typing on a keyboard, using files and writing on a word processor, etc. are accidental skills, not really essential skills. They're like writing cursive: we learned them, so we think naturally everybody must and lament how much it sucks that kids these days do not. But they don't because they don't need to: we now have very capable computing systems that don't need files at all, or at least don't need to surface them at the user level. It could be that writing or understanding code without AI help turns out to be another accidental skill, like writing or understanding assembly code today. It just won't be needed in the future.
- dingdongbong 1y ago
  [dead]
- dogleash 1y ago
  Waxing philosophical about accidental/essential kinda sweeps under the rug that it's an orthogonal dimension to practical for a given status quo. And that's what a lot of people care about even if it's possible to win a conversation by deploying boomer ad hominem. I will lament that professionals with desk jobs can't touch-type. But not out of some "back in my day" bullshit. I didn't learn until my 20s. I eventually had an "oh no" realization that it would probably pay major dividends on the learning investment. It did. And then I knew. I was real good at making excuses to never learn too. Much more resistant than the student/fresh grads I've since convinced to learn.
  - bitwize 1y ago
    Typing was only a universally applicable skill for maybe the past three or four decades. PCs were originally a hard sell among the C suite. You mean before I get anything out of this machine, I have to type things into it? That's what my secretary is for! So if anything, we're going back to the past, when typing need only be learned by specialists who worked in certain fields: clerical work, data entry, and maybe programming.
- musicale 1y ago
  > They're like writing cursive: we learned them, so we think naturally everybody must and lament how much it sucks that kids these days do not Writing cursive may not be the most useful skill (though cursive italic is easy to learn and fast to write), but there's nothing quite like being able to read an important historical document (like the US Constitution) in its original form.
esperent 1y ago
Those are all very specific technical IT related skills, if the next generation doesn't know how to do those things, it's because they don't need to. Not because they can't learn.
- satanfirst 1y ago
  Yes, but they weren't field specific from the rise of the PC to the iPhone. The next life skill, homeEc skill, public forum, etc meant the average kid or middle class adult was being judged on whether they were working on these skills.
- CM30 1y ago
  Except both corporations and academia require them, and it's likely you'll need them at some point in your everyday life too. You can't run many types of business on tablets and smartphones alone.
  - Phanteaume 1y ago
    ...And the businessman in me tells me there will be a market for ever simpler business tools, because computer-illiterate people will still want to do business.
  - esperent 1y ago
    > Except both corporations and academia require them And so the people who are aiming to go into that kind of work will learn these skills. Academia is a tiny proportion of people. "Business" is larger but I think you might be surprised by just how much of business you can do on a phone or tablet these days, with all the files shared and linked between chats and channels rather than saved in the traditional sense. As a somewhat related example, I've finally caved into to following all the marketing staff I hire and started using Canva. The only time you now need to "save a picture" is... never. You just hit share and send the file directly into the WhatsApp chat with the local print shop.
    - fzeroracer 1y ago

bitwize 1y ago

Jaron Lanier was a critic of the view that files were somehow an essential part of computing: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/01/08/jaron-lanier/gory-antigora-illusions-capitalism-computers/ https://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/01/08/jaron-lanier/gory-an... Typing on a keyboard, using files and writing on a word processor, etc. are accidental skills, not really essential skills. They're like writing cursive: we learned them, so we think naturally everybody must and lament how much it sucks that kids these days do not. But they don't because they don't need to: we now have very capable computing systems that don't need files at all, or at least don't need to surface them at the user level. It could be that writing or understanding code without AI help turns out to be another accidental skill, like writing or understanding assembly code today. It just won't be needed in the future.

dingdongbong 1y ago
[dead]
dogleash 1y ago
Waxing philosophical about accidental/essential kinda sweeps under the rug that it's an orthogonal dimension to practical for a given status quo. And that's what a lot of people care about even if it's possible to win a conversation by deploying boomer ad hominem. I will lament that professionals with desk jobs can't touch-type. But not out of some "back in my day" bullshit. I didn't learn until my 20s. I eventually had an "oh no" realization that it would probably pay major dividends on the learning investment. It did. And then I knew. I was real good at making excuses to never learn too. Much more resistant than the student/fresh grads I've since convinced to learn.
- bitwize 1y ago
  Typing was only a universally applicable skill for maybe the past three or four decades. PCs were originally a hard sell among the C suite. You mean before I get anything out of this machine, I have to type things into it? That's what my secretary is for! So if anything, we're going back to the past, when typing need only be learned by specialists who worked in certain fields: clerical work, data entry, and maybe programming.
musicale 1y ago
> They're like writing cursive: we learned them, so we think naturally everybody must and lament how much it sucks that kids these days do not Writing cursive may not be the most useful skill (though cursive italic is easy to learn and fast to write), but there's nothing quite like being able to read an important historical document (like the US Constitution) in its original form.

esperent 1y ago

Those are all very specific technical IT related skills, if the next generation doesn't know how to do those things, it's because they don't need to. Not because they can't learn.

satanfirst 1y ago
Yes, but they weren't field specific from the rise of the PC to the iPhone. The next life skill, homeEc skill, public forum, etc meant the average kid or middle class adult was being judged on whether they were working on these skills.
CM30 1y ago
Except both corporations and academia require them, and it's likely you'll need them at some point in your everyday life too. You can't run many types of business on tablets and smartphones alone.
- Phanteaume 1y ago
  ...And the businessman in me tells me there will be a market for ever simpler business tools, because computer-illiterate people will still want to do business.
- esperent 1y ago
  > Except both corporations and academia require them And so the people who are aiming to go into that kind of work will learn these skills. Academia is a tiny proportion of people. "Business" is larger but I think you might be surprised by just how much of business you can do on a phone or tablet these days, with all the files shared and linked between chats and channels rather than saved in the traditional sense. As a somewhat related example, I've finally caved into to following all the marketing staff I hire and started using Canva. The only time you now need to "save a picture" is... never. You just hit share and send the file directly into the WhatsApp chat with the local print shop.
  - fzeroracer 1y ago