4 ms·

I don't want to sound too cynical but from European perspective I'd say just remove the horrendous costs of college and university by regulazing and subsidizing

I don't want to sound too cynical but from European perspective I'd say just remove the horrendous costs of college and university by regulazing and subsidizing education. It's not communism even if many Americans would think so. But in order to get anywhere near there you'd probably have to start with replacing that orange toad and his minions with something else, anything really would do at this point

wqaatwt 1y ago
US has a higher proportion of university graduates than almost every European country. Especially e.g. Germany is almost 2x lower. It’s not strictly true in all cases but generally it seems that free or subsidized higher education results in rationing and lower accessibility (which is not really such a bad thing if other options like trade schools etc. are available). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiar...
- lunar-whitey 1y ago
  Does this hold if one only compares attainment of degrees in fields that are in demand? US policy has specific features that have resulted in many people of limited means pursuing degrees that confer no professional qualification at all.
- Blackarea 1y ago
  That was an interesting conundrum. I used the gpt research feature to explore that so maybe take it with a grain of salt but I think it's not too bad: > In short, Americans attend college in greater numbers partly because they feel they must (to secure good jobs), whereas many Germans do not feel they need a university degree to have a good career, thanks to the established apprenticeship system and different employer expectations. https://chatgpt.com/share/680c8d76-d6a8-8010-a4cd-48155198f973 https://chatgpt.com/share/680c8d76-d6a8-8010-a4cd-48155198f9... This matches my own experience as a german citizen, that german "Ausbildung" is a very valid and accepted option. Maybe university enrollment or tertiary education on its own isn't drawing the full picture? Worth to think about
sickofparadox 1y ago
The inflection point for the extreme rise in costs of US higher education is the Federal government making it so that students can take out loans that are not dischargeable through bankruptcy. This is a massive subsidy to the entire education system because students will always be able to find someone to loan them more money, because they HAVE to pay it back. Cutting the tap off by removing this exemption would likely see a lot of belt tightening and tuition reduction in the world of higher ed.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  Or the British approach. Tuition fee caps and a low interest government backed loans that effectively function like an income tax surcharge.

wqaatwt 1y ago

US has a higher proportion of university graduates than almost every European country. Especially e.g. Germany is almost 2x lower. It’s not strictly true in all cases but generally it seems that free or subsidized higher education results in rationing and lower accessibility (which is not really such a bad thing if other options like trade schools etc. are available). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiar...

lunar-whitey 1y ago
Does this hold if one only compares attainment of degrees in fields that are in demand? US policy has specific features that have resulted in many people of limited means pursuing degrees that confer no professional qualification at all.
Blackarea 1y ago
That was an interesting conundrum. I used the gpt research feature to explore that so maybe take it with a grain of salt but I think it's not too bad: > In short, Americans attend college in greater numbers partly because they feel they must (to secure good jobs), whereas many Germans do not feel they need a university degree to have a good career, thanks to the established apprenticeship system and different employer expectations. https://chatgpt.com/share/680c8d76-d6a8-8010-a4cd-48155198f973 https://chatgpt.com/share/680c8d76-d6a8-8010-a4cd-48155198f9... This matches my own experience as a german citizen, that german "Ausbildung" is a very valid and accepted option. Maybe university enrollment or tertiary education on its own isn't drawing the full picture? Worth to think about

sickofparadox 1y ago

The inflection point for the extreme rise in costs of US higher education is the Federal government making it so that students can take out loans that are not dischargeable through bankruptcy. This is a massive subsidy to the entire education system because students will always be able to find someone to loan them more money, because they HAVE to pay it back. Cutting the tap off by removing this exemption would likely see a lot of belt tightening and tuition reduction in the world of higher ed.

wqaatwt 1y ago
Or the British approach. Tuition fee caps and a low interest government backed loans that effectively function like an income tax surcharge.