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Employer? No. But I've seen some very smart coworkers value and reward deep, specialized knowledge that is built through working in the same area (of not just t

Employer? No. But I've seen some very smart coworkers value and reward deep, specialized knowledge that is built through working in the same area (of not just tech but also business application) for many years.

xingped 1y ago
Doesn't really matter how much your coworkers value you when your employer suddenly decides tomorrow that they've decided to change focus for the 5th time this month and it's your department getting cut this time.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jayd16 1y ago
  After a layoff is when your reputation matters most, no?
thunky 1y ago
That's experience, which has nothing to do with loyalty.
- mycall 1y ago
  There is some coorelation. To get the experience, you need to appear be a team player and show some signs of loyality to continue obtaining the experience. Different employers have different checks on this, often ego based.
  - thunky 1y ago
    > you need to [...] show some signs of loyality to continue obtaining the experience That may be true for a bad employer but no good employer should ever demand loyalty in exchange for continued employment. If you hire a landscaping service to mow your lawn every week do you demand loyalty from them? I hope not, because that would be ridiculous.
- hylaride 1y ago
  It's camaraderie. Some of the best professional relationships I've had were in terribly run organizations with like-minded peers. I don't know why, but strong bonds form in those situations (and taken to the extreme in the military).
  - thunky 1y ago
    > It's camaraderie Ok, but it's not loyalty. At least I hope not... Those like-minded peers you've had owed you no nothing. You had a fair, respectful, professional relationship with them that was self sustaining and therefore did not demand allegience in either direction. If a better opportunity came along for them I would hope that you would want them to take it despite your history and the camaraderie you've established with them. And same for you.
    - hylaride 1y ago
      > If a better opportunity came along for them I would hope that you would want them to take it despite your history and the camaraderie you've established with them. And same for you. To me, it was not about people leaving you behind, but calling you up when opportunities arise (though I didn't feel that way when it first happened at the beginning of my career). Camaraderie doesn't mean you owe people or are owed anything, but is a mutual level of trust and support. Of the 6 jobs I've had over the past 20 years, 5 of them have been from former colleagues reaching out.
      - thunky 1y ago
        I think we're agreeing. I just don't think loyalty (necessarily) implies mutual trust and support. I've been accused of being disloyal simply for being honest and not agreeing with someone else's stance. So in my gut, loyalty implies abondoning your principals or compromising yourself in some way in order to gain or keep favor with someone else. I suppose others may think of loyalty as a positive trait. But in the context of of a profressional relationship, I can't see any reason we should want loyalty to play a role.
teucris 1y ago
This is the trap I fall into. I have had so many amazing colleagues and I want to do right by them. Sometimes it’s been trench camaraderie, sometimes just really great working relationships, but I almost always feel like I owe it to my fellow employees to work hard, do well for the company, etc. It’s taken me a long time to learn, but that form of loyalty doesn’t equate to employer loyalty.

xingped 1y ago

Doesn't really matter how much your coworkers value you when your employer suddenly decides tomorrow that they've decided to change focus for the 5th time this month and it's your department getting cut this time.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jayd16 1y ago
After a layoff is when your reputation matters most, no?

thunky 1y ago

That's experience, which has nothing to do with loyalty.

mycall 1y ago
There is some coorelation. To get the experience, you need to appear be a team player and show some signs of loyality to continue obtaining the experience. Different employers have different checks on this, often ego based.
- thunky 1y ago
  > you need to [...] show some signs of loyality to continue obtaining the experience That may be true for a bad employer but no good employer should ever demand loyalty in exchange for continued employment. If you hire a landscaping service to mow your lawn every week do you demand loyalty from them? I hope not, because that would be ridiculous.
hylaride 1y ago
It's camaraderie. Some of the best professional relationships I've had were in terribly run organizations with like-minded peers. I don't know why, but strong bonds form in those situations (and taken to the extreme in the military).
- thunky 1y ago
  > It's camaraderie Ok, but it's not loyalty. At least I hope not... Those like-minded peers you've had owed you no nothing. You had a fair, respectful, professional relationship with them that was self sustaining and therefore did not demand allegience in either direction. If a better opportunity came along for them I would hope that you would want them to take it despite your history and the camaraderie you've established with them. And same for you.
  - hylaride 1y ago
    > If a better opportunity came along for them I would hope that you would want them to take it despite your history and the camaraderie you've established with them. And same for you. To me, it was not about people leaving you behind, but calling you up when opportunities arise (though I didn't feel that way when it first happened at the beginning of my career). Camaraderie doesn't mean you owe people or are owed anything, but is a mutual level of trust and support. Of the 6 jobs I've had over the past 20 years, 5 of them have been from former colleagues reaching out.
    - thunky 1y ago
      I think we're agreeing. I just don't think loyalty (necessarily) implies mutual trust and support. I've been accused of being disloyal simply for being honest and not agreeing with someone else's stance. So in my gut, loyalty implies abondoning your principals or compromising yourself in some way in order to gain or keep favor with someone else. I suppose others may think of loyalty as a positive trait. But in the context of of a profressional relationship, I can't see any reason we should want loyalty to play a role.

teucris 1y ago

This is the trap I fall into. I have had so many amazing colleagues and I want to do right by them. Sometimes it’s been trench camaraderie, sometimes just really great working relationships, but I almost always feel like I owe it to my fellow employees to work hard, do well for the company, etc. It’s taken me a long time to learn, but that form of loyalty doesn’t equate to employer loyalty.