5 ms·

I've never quite understood the appeal of ActivityPub. Looking at the list of goals in the article, the only benefit in addition to what can easily be done wit

I've never quite understood the appeal of ActivityPub. Looking at the list of goals in the article, the only benefit in addition to what can easily be done with RSS is knowing who follows me. Maybe its just me, but if I'm writing to a blog or a microblog I just don't really care who follows me or even who reads it. There are more social features built into ActivityPub, likes and shares for example, but at that point I'm likely not running my own server and am trusting a third party to do it for me. The idea that there are multiple hosts I can choose to trust rather than one centralized one feels more like a principled argument than one based on real benefits of, for example, owning my own content or censorship resistance.

genghisjahn 2y ago
I used to think running my own server for blog stuff was a waste as well. But it’s incredible what can be done with local mini server running Ubuntu and cloud flare tunnels.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Sure, I have a small homelab and use Tailscale for a similar setup to CF tunnels. That's a bit besides the point though. I'm not saying hosting ActivityPub yourself seems unnecessary, I'm saying that ActivityPub itself seems unnecessary (or at least not worth the costs and overhead).
- gessha 2y ago
  With the rising VPS costs I'm starting to wonder if it's better to move my VPS in-house(:D). Electricity-wise I might be break-even but I wonder if the bandwidth I get from my ISP will be the same, not that my services are high-traffic anyway.
  - harrison_clarke 2y ago
    the main issue you'd run into is probably your ISP's NAT you generally need a stable IP, and a firewall that'll let people initiate connections from outside your house
    - bigstrat2003 2y ago
      I find that most ISPs provide that. Generally you have a stable (though not permanently so) IP through DHCP, and most ISPs aren't doing CGNAT.
rglullis 2y ago
> if I'm writing to a blog or a microblog I just don't really care who follows me or even who reads it. - if you want to have comments or backtracks, you can do it with ActivityPub without having people signing up to your site (directly or through some OAuth system) - If you want to mitigate spam, you can set up your AP blog to only accept messages on the inbox from actors who you whitelist. - You could have your own Substack where you only send the updates to actors who are paying subscribers.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  The OP here specifically wasn't including any auth features, which I was pretty sure would mean backtracks and comments aren't supported but maybe that's wring. It is possible with ActivityPub, but I'd personally be hesitant to run my own OAuth server just for a microblog. Regardless, my underlying point really is about what I expect of a microblog. If I'm hosting it myself I just want it to be my little corner of the internet, not a full fledged social media site that I have to maintain. That doesn't mean I'm right or that others don't expect more.
  - rglullis 2y ago
    > If I'm hosting it myself I just want it to be my little corner of the internet, not a full fledged social media site that I have to maintain. I think the problem is that OP is focused on developing a framework for AP, and he is dogfooding it by developing an application that other people can understand without too many new concepts. This is good if you want people to get experiments, but it is terrible as a way to present the true potential of the protocol: https://cosocial.ca/@evan/113143389340566731 https://cosocial.ca/@evan/113143389340566731
- apitman 2y ago
  > if you want to have comments or backtracks, you can do it with ActivityPub without having people signing up to your site (directly or through some OAuth system) You can do the same thing with RSS+We mention, which is a way simpler stack and predates ActivityPub by years
candiddevmike 2y ago
ATProto may be more beneficial to integrate, Bluesky seems more active than Mastodon... For blogging, there's WhiteWind: https://whtwnd.com/ https://whtwnd.com/
h4kor 2y ago
I've added ActivityPub to my blog system (https://h4kor.github.io/owl-blogs/ https://h4kor.github.io/owl-blogs/) as just another way of subscribing to the blog, but found that it is a good model to support interactions.
rpgbr 2y ago
The appeal, at least for me, is having a social layer on top of your own stuff. Are you familiar with POSSE (Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere)? With AP you skip the whole second part because it's automatically syndicated everywhere the moment you post on your own site. I'm having good results with the WordPress ActivityPub plugin on my blog[1]. [1] https://manualdousuario.net/en/ https://manualdousuario.net/en/
- patrickdavey 2y ago
  Is this [1] the actual plugin you're using? [1] https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/
  - rpgbr 2y ago
    Yes!
vhcr 2y ago
I hate that the conversation online has moved from distributed to federated, I understand that running p2p software is harder for the user, but I feel like actually distributed microblogging / social networks are the right choice going forwards.
- zamalek 2y ago
  Not even microblogging, jut blogging in general. ActivityPub could be a replacement for RSS readers. I consider a platform that allows you to mix microblogs, blogs, podcasts, videos, and livestreams/events the "endgame" - all of which can be done with ActivityPub (albeit with different projects today). Unfortunately this is not the type of project that I would find interesting at all to write.
- harrison_clarke 2y ago
  p2p stuff looks like it's getting better there's iroh, which looks like a nice balance of batteries included, and not a bunch of bloat and pkarr, which does exactly one thing: maps ed25519 keys to DNS records via bittorrent's DHT i think the big blocker for wider adoption is that browsers, ISPs, and airport wifi are all hostile to general purpose network protocols. you're mostly stuck with TCP, or the quagmire of WebRTC right now. (iroh works in the browser, but it has to go through a relay)
- anacrolix 2y ago
  P2P when done right isn't even noticeable. Libp2p and ipfs have tainted the common experience of this. BitTorrent DHT which people don't even realise is there is how it should be

genghisjahn 2y ago

I used to think running my own server for blog stuff was a waste as well. But it’s incredible what can be done with local mini server running Ubuntu and cloud flare tunnels.

_heimdall 2y ago
Sure, I have a small homelab and use Tailscale for a similar setup to CF tunnels. That's a bit besides the point though. I'm not saying hosting ActivityPub yourself seems unnecessary, I'm saying that ActivityPub itself seems unnecessary (or at least not worth the costs and overhead).
gessha 2y ago
With the rising VPS costs I'm starting to wonder if it's better to move my VPS in-house(:D). Electricity-wise I might be break-even but I wonder if the bandwidth I get from my ISP will be the same, not that my services are high-traffic anyway.
- harrison_clarke 2y ago
  the main issue you'd run into is probably your ISP's NAT you generally need a stable IP, and a firewall that'll let people initiate connections from outside your house
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    I find that most ISPs provide that. Generally you have a stable (though not permanently so) IP through DHCP, and most ISPs aren't doing CGNAT.

rglullis 2y ago

> if I'm writing to a blog or a microblog I just don't really care who follows me or even who reads it. - if you want to have comments or backtracks, you can do it with ActivityPub without having people signing up to your site (directly or through some OAuth system) - If you want to mitigate spam, you can set up your AP blog to only accept messages on the inbox from actors who you whitelist. - You could have your own Substack where you only send the updates to actors who are paying subscribers.

_heimdall 2y ago
The OP here specifically wasn't including any auth features, which I was pretty sure would mean backtracks and comments aren't supported but maybe that's wring. It is possible with ActivityPub, but I'd personally be hesitant to run my own OAuth server just for a microblog. Regardless, my underlying point really is about what I expect of a microblog. If I'm hosting it myself I just want it to be my little corner of the internet, not a full fledged social media site that I have to maintain. That doesn't mean I'm right or that others don't expect more.
- rglullis 2y ago
  > If I'm hosting it myself I just want it to be my little corner of the internet, not a full fledged social media site that I have to maintain. I think the problem is that OP is focused on developing a framework for AP, and he is dogfooding it by developing an application that other people can understand without too many new concepts. This is good if you want people to get experiments, but it is terrible as a way to present the true potential of the protocol: https://cosocial.ca/@evan/113143389340566731 https://cosocial.ca/@evan/113143389340566731
apitman 2y ago
> if you want to have comments or backtracks, you can do it with ActivityPub without having people signing up to your site (directly or through some OAuth system) You can do the same thing with RSS+We mention, which is a way simpler stack and predates ActivityPub by years

candiddevmike 2y ago

ATProto may be more beneficial to integrate, Bluesky seems more active than Mastodon... For blogging, there's WhiteWind: https://whtwnd.com/ https://whtwnd.com/

h4kor 2y ago

I've added ActivityPub to my blog system (https://h4kor.github.io/owl-blogs/ https://h4kor.github.io/owl-blogs/) as just another way of subscribing to the blog, but found that it is a good model to support interactions.

rpgbr 2y ago

The appeal, at least for me, is having a social layer on top of your own stuff. Are you familiar with POSSE (Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere)? With AP you skip the whole second part because it's automatically syndicated everywhere the moment you post on your own site. I'm having good results with the WordPress ActivityPub plugin on my blog[1]. [1] https://manualdousuario.net/en/ https://manualdousuario.net/en/

patrickdavey 2y ago
Is this [1] the actual plugin you're using? [1] https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/ https://wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub/
- rpgbr 2y ago
  Yes!

vhcr 2y ago

I hate that the conversation online has moved from distributed to federated, I understand that running p2p software is harder for the user, but I feel like actually distributed microblogging / social networks are the right choice going forwards.

zamalek 2y ago
Not even microblogging, jut blogging in general. ActivityPub could be a replacement for RSS readers. I consider a platform that allows you to mix microblogs, blogs, podcasts, videos, and livestreams/events the "endgame" - all of which can be done with ActivityPub (albeit with different projects today). Unfortunately this is not the type of project that I would find interesting at all to write.
harrison_clarke 2y ago
p2p stuff looks like it's getting better there's iroh, which looks like a nice balance of batteries included, and not a bunch of bloat and pkarr, which does exactly one thing: maps ed25519 keys to DNS records via bittorrent's DHT i think the big blocker for wider adoption is that browsers, ISPs, and airport wifi are all hostile to general purpose network protocols. you're mostly stuck with TCP, or the quagmire of WebRTC right now. (iroh works in the browser, but it has to go through a relay)
anacrolix 2y ago
P2P when done right isn't even noticeable. Libp2p and ipfs have tainted the common experience of this. BitTorrent DHT which people don't even realise is there is how it should be