5 ms·

I’m honestly very surprised that you don’t see the appeal. Are there other things people view as conveniences that you don’t see the appeal of? E.g., keyless e

I’m honestly very surprised that you don’t see the appeal. Are there other things people view as conveniences that you don’t see the appeal of? E.g., keyless entry or remote lock?

cholantesh 1y ago
Do they really, though? I don't know anyone who raves about how much more convenient button start is, they either dislike/distrust it or don't really care either way.
- vel0city 1y ago
  I absolutely rave about it. Every time I get a rental car that needs a cut key in an ignition cylinder it's a massive pain. I wouldn't buy a car that doesn't have push button ignition and would prefer for all cars I buy going forward to have phone as a key as an option. For my personal cars I either use phone as a key or I'll keep the key fob in my bag. So I just walk up to the car, the car either auto unlocks or I press the button on the door, I get in, I press the button, and I go. When I'm done I just grab my bag and walk away and the car will auto-lock or I just press the door button. So smooth, I never need to really handle the key at all. It just stays in its specific pocket in my bag or it's just my phone in my pocket. With a cut key, I walk up to the car. I need to fish around in my bag to grab the key. I then need to stick the key in the door and turn it, using care to not scratch the paint. I get in the car, need to insert the key, turn it and hold it long enough for it to start. When I'm done driving, I take the key out, grab my bag, and get out of the car. I then need to once again insert my key into the door once again being careful to not scratch anything, turn it to lock. Then I need to put the key away again. And then phone as a key is incredibly nice, definitely my preferred way. I can easily leave the house for most errands with nothing but my phone on me. It's my car key, my payment method, my transit pass, my paperback novel, my portable music player, my camera, my maps, my communicator, all in one tiny package. Incredibly freeing compared to having to carry a bunch of junk in my pockets just to get groceries or whatever.
  - graemep 1y ago
    I do not get the appeal either. You have to put something in your pocket and take it out occasionally. > And then phone as a key is incredibly nice, definitely my preferred way. Your phone becomes a point of failure for one more thing. > Incredibly freeing compared to having to carry a bunch of junk in my pockets just to get groceries or whatever. All I put in my pocket to buy groceries are keys and a wallet.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      > Your phone becomes a point of failure for one more thing. So one critical point of failure instead of multiple critical points of failure. If you lose your car keys on your trip, your trip is still a failure and you're stranded. If you lose your wallet on your trip it's still a failure, and now you have to go cancel a handful of cards and you're out the cash in the wallet and what not and need to get a new ID. If you lose your phone it's still a bad day, a potentially expensive and useful device went missing. If I lose my phone it's the same bad day as if you lose yours, a potentially expensive device went missing. I can use my backup passphrase on the car to get home. I still have my regular wallet at home to fall back on, and all my payment info was encrypted and can be remotely wiped with a few clicks. I didn't lose any government documents. And in the end, it's not like I'm breaking my phone every day or something. Phones are pretty resilient these days especially when thinking about short trips around town. I've had one phone break from physical damage in the past decade. Seems like an overblown concern to me. As for "what if your phone dies?", the car is a 74kWh battery. If my phone dies while I'm next to 74kWh of electricity I'm an idiot and failed to have extremely basic plans. > All I put in my pocket to buy groceries are keys and a wallet. So 3x more junk than me for otherwise no reason.
      - graemep 1y ago
        > . If you lose your car keys on your trip, your trip is still a failure I have my phone so i can phone for help. I have my wallet so I can pay for things. > If I lose my phone it's the same bad day as if you lose yours, a potentially expensive device went missing Nope, because its like everything that could happen to me happening at once. You have a lot less backup.
- whartung 1y ago
  I love the entry on my '14 Jeep. Walk up, put your hand in the handle, and it unlocks. Get in, press the button, and it starts. This is a fabulous "happy path" that is seamless. Nothing happens without an actual action, but the actions are natural and organic to the task. The sensor is inside the door handle, combined with the key fob, and it just opens when you slide your hand into. It's a, truly, marvelous experience. My keys stay in my pocket. Since I open the door for my wife anyway, it just works. (She can open the door, I just have to be close.) Similarly, when we open the rear lift gate, it just opens. This also unlocks the rest of the vehicle (in contrast to if I push the gate open button on the fob, only the rear gate is open, not the rest -- which I find odd). When leaving, I press a lock button on the handle to lock the car. It's a great compromise, and works really well.
- shepherdjerred 1y ago
  I like it quite a bit. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, but I would prefer having it than not.

I’m honestly very surprised that you don’t see the appeal. Are there other things people view as conveniences that you don’t see the appeal of? E.g., keyless entry or remote lock?

cholantesh 1y ago

Do they really, though? I don't know anyone who raves about how much more convenient button start is, they either dislike/distrust it or don't really care either way.

vel0city 1y ago
I absolutely rave about it. Every time I get a rental car that needs a cut key in an ignition cylinder it's a massive pain. I wouldn't buy a car that doesn't have push button ignition and would prefer for all cars I buy going forward to have phone as a key as an option. For my personal cars I either use phone as a key or I'll keep the key fob in my bag. So I just walk up to the car, the car either auto unlocks or I press the button on the door, I get in, I press the button, and I go. When I'm done I just grab my bag and walk away and the car will auto-lock or I just press the door button. So smooth, I never need to really handle the key at all. It just stays in its specific pocket in my bag or it's just my phone in my pocket. With a cut key, I walk up to the car. I need to fish around in my bag to grab the key. I then need to stick the key in the door and turn it, using care to not scratch the paint. I get in the car, need to insert the key, turn it and hold it long enough for it to start. When I'm done driving, I take the key out, grab my bag, and get out of the car. I then need to once again insert my key into the door once again being careful to not scratch anything, turn it to lock. Then I need to put the key away again. And then phone as a key is incredibly nice, definitely my preferred way. I can easily leave the house for most errands with nothing but my phone on me. It's my car key, my payment method, my transit pass, my paperback novel, my portable music player, my camera, my maps, my communicator, all in one tiny package. Incredibly freeing compared to having to carry a bunch of junk in my pockets just to get groceries or whatever.
- graemep 1y ago
  I do not get the appeal either. You have to put something in your pocket and take it out occasionally. > And then phone as a key is incredibly nice, definitely my preferred way. Your phone becomes a point of failure for one more thing. > Incredibly freeing compared to having to carry a bunch of junk in my pockets just to get groceries or whatever. All I put in my pocket to buy groceries are keys and a wallet.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    > Your phone becomes a point of failure for one more thing. So one critical point of failure instead of multiple critical points of failure. If you lose your car keys on your trip, your trip is still a failure and you're stranded. If you lose your wallet on your trip it's still a failure, and now you have to go cancel a handful of cards and you're out the cash in the wallet and what not and need to get a new ID. If you lose your phone it's still a bad day, a potentially expensive and useful device went missing. If I lose my phone it's the same bad day as if you lose yours, a potentially expensive device went missing. I can use my backup passphrase on the car to get home. I still have my regular wallet at home to fall back on, and all my payment info was encrypted and can be remotely wiped with a few clicks. I didn't lose any government documents. And in the end, it's not like I'm breaking my phone every day or something. Phones are pretty resilient these days especially when thinking about short trips around town. I've had one phone break from physical damage in the past decade. Seems like an overblown concern to me. As for "what if your phone dies?", the car is a 74kWh battery. If my phone dies while I'm next to 74kWh of electricity I'm an idiot and failed to have extremely basic plans. > All I put in my pocket to buy groceries are keys and a wallet. So 3x more junk than me for otherwise no reason.
    - graemep 1y ago
      > . If you lose your car keys on your trip, your trip is still a failure I have my phone so i can phone for help. I have my wallet so I can pay for things. > If I lose my phone it's the same bad day as if you lose yours, a potentially expensive device went missing Nope, because its like everything that could happen to me happening at once. You have a lot less backup.
whartung 1y ago
I love the entry on my '14 Jeep. Walk up, put your hand in the handle, and it unlocks. Get in, press the button, and it starts. This is a fabulous "happy path" that is seamless. Nothing happens without an actual action, but the actions are natural and organic to the task. The sensor is inside the door handle, combined with the key fob, and it just opens when you slide your hand into. It's a, truly, marvelous experience. My keys stay in my pocket. Since I open the door for my wife anyway, it just works. (She can open the door, I just have to be close.) Similarly, when we open the rear lift gate, it just opens. This also unlocks the rest of the vehicle (in contrast to if I push the gate open button on the fob, only the rear gate is open, not the rest -- which I find odd). When leaving, I press a lock button on the handle to lock the car. It's a great compromise, and works really well.
shepherdjerred 1y ago
I like it quite a bit. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, but I would prefer having it than not.