5 ms·

Yeah, to me its crazy how anti-consumer the US is compared to the EU, just because of laws

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
This law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer. And the US consumer cares a lot less about energy usage since they're much more energy and monetarily rich than the EU. If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.
- amarcheschi 1y ago
  The article talks about ecodesign requirements as well, such as spare parts needing to be available for some years after the product isn't sold, the freedom to have 3rd parties repair devices and so on. It's not only a matter of energy but consumer protection as well
- myrmidon 1y ago
  I think regulation like this is just strictly good (even from US perspective/priorities), because you can not realistically "vote with your wallet" for environment-friendly products when relevant info is obfuscated, falsified or not available at all. Just ignoring energy efficiency/repairability labelling is always an option for consumers on the other hand. > If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more. I'm not so sure on this; I think environmental concerns are mainly culture driven I think, because even after all the price increases over the last decade, especially electricity is still dirt cheap compared to e.g. rent, basically everywhere.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >I think regulation like this is just strictly good (even from US perspective/priorities) I never said it's bad, I was just answered why the EU is pushing for this when US isn't: because in US energy affordability is not as big of an issue for consumers.
- nolok 1y ago
  > this law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer Not sure about the distinction there, improving the environment and energy usage is benefitting the consumer, because the consumer is also the citizen living there
- gessha 1y ago
  I just checked the el. prices for Germany on [1] and [2] and I see something like 9-12 euro ct/kWh which is $0.10/kWh. In NY state [3], where I live, the prices right now are $0.25/kWh so 250% more. Average salaries for Germany are $57,198 [4] and $61,984 [5] for US. Maybe I'm missing some details about it but I don't it's about affordability and energy cost. My take is it's a lot more about top-down politics. [1] https://www.energyprices.eu/electricity/germany https://www.energyprices.eu/electricity/germany [2] https://spotprices.eu/de/spotprice/de1 https://spotprices.eu/de/spotprice/de1 [3] https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Prices/Electricity/Monthly-Avg-Electricity-Residential https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Prices/Electricity/Monthly... [4] https://www.learngermanonline.org/salaries-and-living-costs-in-germany/ https://www.learngermanonline.org/salaries-and-living-costs-... [5] https://www.demandsage.com/average-us-income/ https://www.demandsage.com/average-us-income/
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    You only looked at spot prices which is not what a lot for consumers pay in their contracts.
    - gessha 1y ago
      That's a good point. The numbers go the opposite way if you check household prices. Are prices in Germany anomalous due to them putting their eggs in the Russian gas basket? Countries with nuclear power plants seem to have lower electricity prices (who would've known). US $0.18/kWh [1] DE $0.44/kWh [2] EU $0.32/kWh [2] [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics#Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
      - myrmidon 1y ago
        In Germany, I think a big cost driver is infrastructure buildout, from switching coal plants to renewables as well as building new gas turbines, more so than gas price itself (which is <20% of electricity). But the country is already >60% renewables for electricity, so there is at least something to show for it. France basically invested 40 years ago and are still reaping the spoils; I'd expect prices there to rise significantly once a majority of nuclear reactors reaches end-of-life. From a household perspective the cost of electricity feels pretty marginal to me, anyway.
Jnr 1y ago
And yet, only US has right-to-repair laws for cars. When is EU going to fix that? I can't get manuals and software access to fix a new car made in EU. I don't really care that I can't fix my all-glued-up phone for <1000 EUR but I do care that I have to spend thousands on car repairs that I could do myself.

This law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer. And the US consumer cares a lot less about energy usage since they're much more energy and monetarily rich than the EU. If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.

amarcheschi 1y ago
The article talks about ecodesign requirements as well, such as spare parts needing to be available for some years after the product isn't sold, the freedom to have 3rd parties repair devices and so on. It's not only a matter of energy but consumer protection as well
myrmidon 1y ago
I think regulation like this is just strictly good (even from US perspective/priorities), because you can not realistically "vote with your wallet" for environment-friendly products when relevant info is obfuscated, falsified or not available at all. Just ignoring energy efficiency/repairability labelling is always an option for consumers on the other hand. > If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more. I'm not so sure on this; I think environmental concerns are mainly culture driven I think, because even after all the price increases over the last decade, especially electricity is still dirt cheap compared to e.g. rent, basically everywhere.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >I think regulation like this is just strictly good (even from US perspective/priorities) I never said it's bad, I was just answered why the EU is pushing for this when US isn't: because in US energy affordability is not as big of an issue for consumers.
nolok 1y ago
> this law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer Not sure about the distinction there, improving the environment and energy usage is benefitting the consumer, because the consumer is also the citizen living there
gessha 1y ago
I just checked the el. prices for Germany on [1] and [2] and I see something like 9-12 euro ct/kWh which is $0.10/kWh. In NY state [3], where I live, the prices right now are $0.25/kWh so 250% more. Average salaries for Germany are $57,198 [4] and $61,984 [5] for US. Maybe I'm missing some details about it but I don't it's about affordability and energy cost. My take is it's a lot more about top-down politics. [1] https://www.energyprices.eu/electricity/germany https://www.energyprices.eu/electricity/germany [2] https://spotprices.eu/de/spotprice/de1 https://spotprices.eu/de/spotprice/de1 [3] https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Prices/Electricity/Monthly-Avg-Electricity-Residential https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Prices/Electricity/Monthly... [4] https://www.learngermanonline.org/salaries-and-living-costs-in-germany/ https://www.learngermanonline.org/salaries-and-living-costs-... [5] https://www.demandsage.com/average-us-income/ https://www.demandsage.com/average-us-income/
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  You only looked at spot prices which is not what a lot for consumers pay in their contracts.
  - gessha 1y ago
    That's a good point. The numbers go the opposite way if you check household prices. Are prices in Germany anomalous due to them putting their eggs in the Russian gas basket? Countries with nuclear power plants seem to have lower electricity prices (who would've known). US $0.18/kWh [1] DE $0.44/kWh [2] EU $0.32/kWh [2] [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 [2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics#Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
    - myrmidon 1y ago
      In Germany, I think a big cost driver is infrastructure buildout, from switching coal plants to renewables as well as building new gas turbines, more so than gas price itself (which is <20% of electricity). But the country is already >60% renewables for electricity, so there is at least something to show for it. France basically invested 40 years ago and are still reaping the spoils; I'd expect prices there to rise significantly once a majority of nuclear reactors reaches end-of-life. From a household perspective the cost of electricity feels pretty marginal to me, anyway.

Jnr 1y ago

And yet, only US has right-to-repair laws for cars. When is EU going to fix that? I can't get manuals and software access to fix a new car made in EU. I don't really care that I can't fix my all-glued-up phone for <1000 EUR but I do care that I have to spend thousands on car repairs that I could do myself.