7 ms·

You're assuming that advertisers never meet users needs. If I'm selling you a bike, and I also tell you about a good deal on bike insurance you can get, then I

You're assuming that advertisers never meet users needs. If I'm selling you a bike, and I also tell you about a good deal on bike insurance you can get, then I'm advertising at you. Maybe I get a cut of the insurance premium. BUT, I'm also adding value for the customer. It's a mutually beneficial transaction. I know it's blasphemy to claim that advertising is sometimes pretty damn useful around these parts, but the fact is, it is useful for users just as much as it's useful for companies in search of revenue. edit: Has no one here ever clicked on a sponsored result in google? If not, bear in mind you're the exception rather than the rule.

majormajor 14y ago
The comment wasn't assuming that they _never_ overlap, it was assuming that they don't _always_ overlap.
eykanal 14y ago
Change that to "internet advertisers", and that is exactly my assumption. Personally, I think that is a fine assumption to make. I have never seen an advertisement add value to a internet-based conversation I was having or article I was reading on the net.
- mibbitier 14y ago
  So when amazon suggests that you might want to buy a certain bike helmet based on the fact you're buying a bike, you find that information utterly useless?
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    I do find it utterly useless. If I'm buying a bike then I either already have a helmet, or already know I need to buy one. So what value is the ad providing? I'm not going to blindly purchase something without doing at least a little research (to check prices, at the very least), so the ad is just getting in the way and wasting bandwidth.
    - briandear 14y ago
      So how do you find out about anything? Even in the Bike shop, they have product displays to show off products-- that is advertising. The funny thing is you are likely subconsciously exposed to products that you eventually buy all while thinking that you 'discovered' the product on some hipster blog while pretending that you're impervious. You wouldn't know about any new movie unless they were advertised. Unless you read reviews which, are seeded by the film's PR department which is, in effect advertising. Don't be so sanctimonious. You cannot honestly say you never tried a new restaurant unless expressly recommended by a friend. Those signs in front of restaurants.. You guessed it, advertising. You're a consumer whether you admit it or not.
    - runako 14y ago
      In that case, congratulations! You are the perfectly-informed consumer, aware of every relevant product category (and product). You use the Internet for price checking only. You don't need to be made aware of a new product in any category, because you are on all industry listservs. You are the only one of your kind. Every other homo sapiens sapiens finds it difficult to stay abreast of all the submarkets he/she participates in. They spend their mental energies on other things, or simply don't care to research products costing under some threshold. For example, I consider myself very savvy at computer purchases. However, I really can use guidance in purchasing power tools as I'm not a frequent user. In fact, I really wouldn't be surprised to learn that of the existence of entire categories of power tools. Just because I'm not seeking them out doesn't mean I couldn't use them around the house. Oh, and I don't really want to spend a lot of time researching them because I actually do have better things to do. Also, I freely admit that I have never researched tape; the benefits of one vs. the other are a topic of which I am wholly ignorant at the moment. (Obviously you are not possessed of such an ignorance.) For the homo sapiens sapiens other than you, sometimes a little nudge is actually mutually beneficial. An ad might make us aware of a product category, or an upgrade to an existing category that makes it more useful to us. All of these might make us do more research, or simply go buy something.
- wpietri 14y ago
  Yes. The one area where I see advertisements providing value to those viewing them is in search and search-like contexts. In user testing, one of my colleagues was having a guy go Google searches for particular products. The guy said, "I'll tell you a secret. I ignore the stuff on the left. The really good stuff is in blue on the right." But everywhere else, the purpose of the ads is to distract you from whatever you're trying to do. Which is a real struggle for Facebook; gossip is so much more interesting then your average ad that their click-through rates are terrible.
sp332 14y ago
Sometimes they're the same, but that doesn't mean they're the same.
slantyyz 14y ago
I agree, but advertising utility varies from site to site and in implementation method. For example, I click quite frequently on Google Ads in my search results, because the ads are related to my activity. On the other hand, I never click on Facebook ads, because a) they look ghetto/sleazy, b) they never provide any useful content related to my interests.
- mibbitier 14y ago
  There's a ton of bad advertising. That doesn't mean it's all bad. I agree. I've never clicked on a facebook ad either. They seem scammy to me. Advertising on social media is far harder than on a site where you have some indication of intent.
wpietri 14y ago
Advertising can add value when it transmits novel information that would be hard to get some other way. But it usually doesn't. It's mainly an arms race to distort natural market outcomes. Coca Cola doesn't spend over a billion dollars a year advertising because they want to make you aware of some new fact. They just think they can make much more than that billion back by manipulating you.
- mibbitier 14y ago
  Nice conspiracy theory. Advertising is there to make sure you're aware of something. It's telling you "Hey! There's this product/movie/service etc that you might not have known about". I find advertising extremely useful to know about new things.
  - wpietri 14y ago
    Are you seriously suggesting that Coca Cola spends a billion dollars a year to reach people who are unfamiliar with their beverage? I'm not sure what conspiracy you think I'm suggesting. There is nothing particularly hidden about what advertisers do. Go talk to people who have made ads for a living. Or take a media literacy course. Heck, go watch the Superbowl beer commercials and tell us what novel product information is being conveyed there: http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/27/top-10-super-bowl-beer-commercials-video/ http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/27/top-10-super-bowl-beer-com...
    - MartinCron 14y ago
      What is this Coca Cola thing everyone keeps talking about? I've never heard of it.
    - objclxt 14y ago
      The beer commercials are actually quite a bad example in this case: Coca Cola certainly don't spend billions a year to reach people unfamiliar with their beverages. Beer companies do. A major target market for alcohol is those either underage or just starting drinking. Habits and personally preferences are frequently set very early on - Superbowl beer commercials may be designed for press, but a significant bulk of advertising money is spent by beer companies to convince people who have just started drinking that their brand is the right brand.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ghshephard 14y ago
I disagree with you - but I'm not downvoting you because I think you bring up an interesting point. The problem, though, is the advertising on buy.com, monoprice.com, amazon.com and even google.com is actually quite useful for me. Sometimes even the ads on dpreview.com are interesting. The issue here is intent - on these sites, I am looking to buy products, product reviews, or (in the case of google) searching for something that might be product related. On my social networks (Path) - my intent is to see what my niece is up to, what my friends are doing, and what my mother's latest project is. It is not (and never has been) to "Find a Female Friend in Redwood City", or, "Check out the Kmart Special". It is this disconnect between intent and ad-presentation that makes the pollution of the twitter feed so offensive.
guscost 14y ago
Begone, marketing department! The developers are having a scrum.

majormajor 14y ago

The comment wasn't assuming that they _never_ overlap, it was assuming that they don't _always_ overlap.

eykanal 14y ago

Change that to "internet advertisers", and that is exactly my assumption. Personally, I think that is a fine assumption to make. I have never seen an advertisement add value to a internet-based conversation I was having or article I was reading on the net.

mibbitier 14y ago
So when amazon suggests that you might want to buy a certain bike helmet based on the fact you're buying a bike, you find that information utterly useless?
- jlarocco 14y ago
  I do find it utterly useless. If I'm buying a bike then I either already have a helmet, or already know I need to buy one. So what value is the ad providing? I'm not going to blindly purchase something without doing at least a little research (to check prices, at the very least), so the ad is just getting in the way and wasting bandwidth.
  - briandear 14y ago
    So how do you find out about anything? Even in the Bike shop, they have product displays to show off products-- that is advertising. The funny thing is you are likely subconsciously exposed to products that you eventually buy all while thinking that you 'discovered' the product on some hipster blog while pretending that you're impervious. You wouldn't know about any new movie unless they were advertised. Unless you read reviews which, are seeded by the film's PR department which is, in effect advertising. Don't be so sanctimonious. You cannot honestly say you never tried a new restaurant unless expressly recommended by a friend. Those signs in front of restaurants.. You guessed it, advertising. You're a consumer whether you admit it or not.
  - runako 14y ago
    In that case, congratulations! You are the perfectly-informed consumer, aware of every relevant product category (and product). You use the Internet for price checking only. You don't need to be made aware of a new product in any category, because you are on all industry listservs. You are the only one of your kind. Every other homo sapiens sapiens finds it difficult to stay abreast of all the submarkets he/she participates in. They spend their mental energies on other things, or simply don't care to research products costing under some threshold. For example, I consider myself very savvy at computer purchases. However, I really can use guidance in purchasing power tools as I'm not a frequent user. In fact, I really wouldn't be surprised to learn that of the existence of entire categories of power tools. Just because I'm not seeking them out doesn't mean I couldn't use them around the house. Oh, and I don't really want to spend a lot of time researching them because I actually do have better things to do. Also, I freely admit that I have never researched tape; the benefits of one vs. the other are a topic of which I am wholly ignorant at the moment. (Obviously you are not possessed of such an ignorance.) For the homo sapiens sapiens other than you, sometimes a little nudge is actually mutually beneficial. An ad might make us aware of a product category, or an upgrade to an existing category that makes it more useful to us. All of these might make us do more research, or simply go buy something.
wpietri 14y ago
Yes. The one area where I see advertisements providing value to those viewing them is in search and search-like contexts. In user testing, one of my colleagues was having a guy go Google searches for particular products. The guy said, "I'll tell you a secret. I ignore the stuff on the left. The really good stuff is in blue on the right." But everywhere else, the purpose of the ads is to distract you from whatever you're trying to do. Which is a real struggle for Facebook; gossip is so much more interesting then your average ad that their click-through rates are terrible.

sp332 14y ago

Sometimes they're the same, but that doesn't mean they're the same.

slantyyz 14y ago

I agree, but advertising utility varies from site to site and in implementation method. For example, I click quite frequently on Google Ads in my search results, because the ads are related to my activity. On the other hand, I never click on Facebook ads, because a) they look ghetto/sleazy, b) they never provide any useful content related to my interests.

mibbitier 14y ago
There's a ton of bad advertising. That doesn't mean it's all bad. I agree. I've never clicked on a facebook ad either. They seem scammy to me. Advertising on social media is far harder than on a site where you have some indication of intent.

wpietri 14y ago

Advertising can add value when it transmits novel information that would be hard to get some other way. But it usually doesn't. It's mainly an arms race to distort natural market outcomes. Coca Cola doesn't spend over a billion dollars a year advertising because they want to make you aware of some new fact. They just think they can make much more than that billion back by manipulating you.

mibbitier 14y ago
Nice conspiracy theory. Advertising is there to make sure you're aware of something. It's telling you "Hey! There's this product/movie/service etc that you might not have known about". I find advertising extremely useful to know about new things.
- wpietri 14y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting that Coca Cola spends a billion dollars a year to reach people who are unfamiliar with their beverage? I'm not sure what conspiracy you think I'm suggesting. There is nothing particularly hidden about what advertisers do. Go talk to people who have made ads for a living. Or take a media literacy course. Heck, go watch the Superbowl beer commercials and tell us what novel product information is being conveyed there: http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/27/top-10-super-bowl-beer-commercials-video/ http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/27/top-10-super-bowl-beer-com...
  - MartinCron 14y ago
    What is this Coca Cola thing everyone keeps talking about? I've never heard of it.
  - objclxt 14y ago
    The beer commercials are actually quite a bad example in this case: Coca Cola certainly don't spend billions a year to reach people unfamiliar with their beverages. Beer companies do. A major target market for alcohol is those either underage or just starting drinking. Habits and personally preferences are frequently set very early on - Superbowl beer commercials may be designed for press, but a significant bulk of advertising money is spent by beer companies to convince people who have just started drinking that their brand is the right brand.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ghshephard 14y ago

I disagree with you - but I'm not downvoting you because I think you bring up an interesting point. The problem, though, is the advertising on buy.com, monoprice.com, amazon.com and even google.com is actually quite useful for me. Sometimes even the ads on dpreview.com are interesting. The issue here is intent - on these sites, I am looking to buy products, product reviews, or (in the case of google) searching for something that might be product related. On my social networks (Path) - my intent is to see what my niece is up to, what my friends are doing, and what my mother's latest project is. It is not (and never has been) to "Find a Female Friend in Redwood City", or, "Check out the Kmart Special". It is this disconnect between intent and ad-presentation that makes the pollution of the twitter feed so offensive.

guscost 14y ago

Begone, marketing department! The developers are having a scrum.