5 ms·

These are government employees, you don't get to do that.

spauldo 1y ago
Government software can't be copywrited, but the government is under no compulsion to share it. That's what FOIA requests are for.
- godelski 1y ago
  Actually, they are. It's really more a question of with who and of course don't apply to classified material. But the SHARE IT act really helps formalize what was already happening. Most code is shared and made public. It's paid for by the public. Though it's usually not easily searchable as it's distributed via different platforms, means, and may even require submitting a freedom of information request first. But in more cases than not, there is obligation to share when requested. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9566 https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9566
  - spauldo 1y ago
    The "when requested" is the point I was making. FOIA is how you request such software. If you want a copy of the elisp libraries I wrote to automate creation of field devices on military fuel farm SCADA systems, you'll have to submit an FOIA request. Unless someone at the DoD decides to share it out of the goodness of their hearts, you have to ask for it.
    - spauldo 1y ago
      I guess I should have been clearer - the "private repository" mentioned in that bill only has to be available for government employees, and even then only on request. Public repositories are an option, but the government doesn't have to choose that option. The main point is to encourage reuse within the government, not to be a source of free public domain software for the public.
      - santoshalper 1y ago
        Almost everything the government makes IS public domain, including the software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_the_federal_government_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_t...
        spauldo 1y ago
        Just because it's public domain doesn't mean they are obliged to make it available to the public. As noted above, they do have to make it available to other government agencies, but it's the government's choice to place it in a public repository. All public domain means is that if you happen to acquire a copy of it, you can do whatever you like with it.
    - herewulf 1y ago
      Sounds fascinating! Other than the FOIA bit. Do you have a blog post or something with more detail about this work?
      - spauldo 1y ago
        Naw, it's not really all that interesting. A SCADA system has a bunch of field devices it needs to talk to. Most SCADA software has some method of importing lists of device information and creating objects from it. My engineer gives me a list of (for example) valve actuators on a site. I open that list in Emacs, manipulate it a bit, and then use it as input to a function I've written. That function generates a CSV file with things like tag name, Modbus ID, polling method, etc. that I can import into Wonderware. It's considerably faster and less error prone than manually creating and configuring hundreds of instances. I say it's not interesting because most people in my position write little bits of code like this to automate the repetitive parts of our jobs. I just do it with elisp instead of Excel or Python.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
grandempire 1y ago
You have to keep git repos public as a government employee?
- zeckalpha 1y ago
  Would be a good trial of the GPL.
  - grandempire 1y ago
    You only have to give GPL source to the people who you distribute software to. You can fork anything privately for yourself.
    - whoknowsidont 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - grandempire 1y ago
        Please fill me in.
    - zeckalpha 1y ago
      Distribution has a pretty low bar. If your private fork is on GitHub, have you distributed it to GitHub?

Government software can't be copywrited, but the government is under no compulsion to share it. That's what FOIA requests are for.

godelski 1y ago
Actually, they are. It's really more a question of with who and of course don't apply to classified material. But the SHARE IT act really helps formalize what was already happening. Most code is shared and made public. It's paid for by the public. Though it's usually not easily searchable as it's distributed via different platforms, means, and may even require submitting a freedom of information request first. But in more cases than not, there is obligation to share when requested. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9566 https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/9566
- spauldo 1y ago
  The "when requested" is the point I was making. FOIA is how you request such software. If you want a copy of the elisp libraries I wrote to automate creation of field devices on military fuel farm SCADA systems, you'll have to submit an FOIA request. Unless someone at the DoD decides to share it out of the goodness of their hearts, you have to ask for it.
  - spauldo 1y ago
    I guess I should have been clearer - the "private repository" mentioned in that bill only has to be available for government employees, and even then only on request. Public repositories are an option, but the government doesn't have to choose that option. The main point is to encourage reuse within the government, not to be a source of free public domain software for the public.
    - santoshalper 1y ago
      Almost everything the government makes IS public domain, including the software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_the_federal_government_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_works_by_t...
      - spauldo 1y ago
        Just because it's public domain doesn't mean they are obliged to make it available to the public. As noted above, they do have to make it available to other government agencies, but it's the government's choice to place it in a public repository. All public domain means is that if you happen to acquire a copy of it, you can do whatever you like with it.
  - herewulf 1y ago
    Sounds fascinating! Other than the FOIA bit. Do you have a blog post or something with more detail about this work?
    - spauldo 1y ago
      Naw, it's not really all that interesting. A SCADA system has a bunch of field devices it needs to talk to. Most SCADA software has some method of importing lists of device information and creating objects from it. My engineer gives me a list of (for example) valve actuators on a site. I open that list in Emacs, manipulate it a bit, and then use it as input to a function I've written. That function generates a CSV file with things like tag name, Modbus ID, polling method, etc. that I can import into Wonderware. It's considerably faster and less error prone than manually creating and configuring hundreds of instances. I say it's not interesting because most people in my position write little bits of code like this to automate the repetitive parts of our jobs. I just do it with elisp instead of Excel or Python.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

grandempire 1y ago

You have to keep git repos public as a government employee?

zeckalpha 1y ago
Would be a good trial of the GPL.
- grandempire 1y ago
  You only have to give GPL source to the people who you distribute software to. You can fork anything privately for yourself.
  - whoknowsidont 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - grandempire 1y ago
      Please fill me in.
  - zeckalpha 1y ago
    Distribution has a pretty low bar. If your private fork is on GitHub, have you distributed it to GitHub?