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> Elon Musk is right to shift his focus back to carmaking No. The damage to Tesla's reputation has already been done, and the only way to fix it is for the bo

by elihu 1y ago

> Elon Musk is right to shift his focus back to carmaking No. The damage to Tesla's reputation has already been done, and the only way to fix it is for the board to fire Elon Musk as CEO. > Listings for the Model 3 have increased by 63%; those for the Model Y have rocketed by 80%. The pattern can be seen in both left-leaning states, such as Massachusetts and New York, and right-leaning ones, such as Indiana and South Carolina. Many Democrats live in red states and many Republicans live in red states. It may be true that Republicans are selling their Teslas in increasing numbers, but this isn't a convincing argument. Even in a red state, I would expect EV owners to be mostly Democrats.

klik99 1y ago
Honestly if he announced tomorrow "Hey that was a hell of a bender, and I regret it - I'm leaving politics and focusing on running my companies" and he actually STUCK to that, then I'd be happy. Mostly because I believe people are most dangerous when they think they have nothing to lose (I've heard privately he's talking a lot about being #2 assassination target after Trump) and get pushed into more extreme positions by the culture being so black and white these days. If he was truly out of politics I wouldn't give two cares if he's an asshole or not. But yeah, somehow I doubt he'll get over the sunk cost fallacy and just dip out of politics. He really needs to choose though - if he's going full into politics he should be really get out of Tesla. He's got pretty much full control over the Tesla board though, if I understand correctly.
- Tadpole9181 1y ago
  He did two Nazi salutes on national television, compromised national security, destroyed thousands of careers, compromised the security of public sector jobs, used his obscene wealth to try to buy votes twice while controlling and entire party into capitulation by threat of primary, used his roles to break federal law for advertisement purposes, abused his role to award himself contracts, has spent a decade lying to investors and consumers, is on ketamine, keeps getting caught trying to pay to impregnate women, conspired to destroy public infrastructure projects, and actively spreads toxic right-wing rhetoric while amplifying hate speech in social media. That's not even to mention the business itself in how he has failed to ever produce a successful product at Tesla since he purchased it (the Cybertruck is the only project not already started at acquisition). And if he just said "sowwy fow weelsies", you'd be okay with that? Are you kidding me? Is everyone just completely and totally ideologically bankrupt now? Does nobody have a single shred of common sense to avoid huksters?
- apercu 1y ago
  Naw. He’s a small little bitter angry man with daddy issues and low self esteem. No matter what he said I would never buy it. He’s a clown.
gexla 1y ago
As a board member, you would be unhappy? The board members represent the investors. As an investor, what would your assessment be for Tesla as part of your portfolio?
- plugger 1y ago
  The stock is down nearly 34% this year. Would you be happy with those metrics as an investor and/or board member? If the CEO of a company you invest in decided to alienate the majority of said company's customer base, would you be happy as an board member?
- elihu 1y ago
  Tesla's sales are dropping, in large part because many EV buyers would be embarrassed to be seen driving a car made by a company run by a guy that's actively dismantling the US government and who gave a Nazi salute at a rally when Trump was inaugurated. If they weren't selling carbon credits to other manufacturers, they'd be operating at a loss. If I were a Tesla shareholder, I'd be pessimistic about the company's future as long as Elon's name is associated with the brand. They were a highly successful company that made some of the most popular cars, but now their brand is toxic solely because of the actions of their CEO. Tesla is would be much better off without him.
  - sunflowerfly 1y ago
    He has also not shown the ability to design new products. All of their vehicles except the Cyber Truck where in design when he bought the company. His one product is a flop.
  - robocat 1y ago
    > selling carbon credits to other manufacturers Any links? That would mess with environmental arguments per dollar or km.
    - gruez 1y ago
      I think he meant CAFE credits, for other car companies that can't meet their CAFE obligations.
tzs 1y ago
Massachusetts might be partly due to economics. It has a combination of low gas prices and high electric prices that makes it the least favorable state for EVs. Using statewide average gas and electricity prices as of a couple weeks ago or so (whenever I last grabbed the data) a pure ICE RAV4 has a lower energy cost per mile than a Tesla Model Y (the trim with the highest MPGs) there on the highway. The Tesla still wins in the city. Change that Toyota to a RAV4 Hybrid (non-plug in) and then the RAV4 wins both highway and city. Go for a Prius and then there are 8 states where the Prius beats the Tesla on both city and highway (Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont). There are two where the Prius wins highway but not city: California and New Jersey. The states most favorable to EVs are Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Missouri, South Dakota, Iowa, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. In those states gas prices would have to fall about 60% (Washington) to 35% (Oklahoma) for the Prius to win. It's interesting that most of the states where energy prices most favor EVs are red states. Note: the above was using residential electricity prices. For people that can't charge at home the Prius will win a lot more. Around here the best commercial charging is about twice what residential charging costs. If that holds elsewhere then I think only about 8 states would have the Tesla come out ahead of the Prius.
- mingus88 1y ago
  Yes I think EVs don’t make sense for most people who rent. Unfortunately that’s a large segment of people. My residential rate is $0.11 per kWh and $0.56 at an electrify America charger. That’s a steep hike for those who can’t install a charger at home. Waking up in the morning to a fully charged car, for a fraction of a gallon of gas ($4.60 here) and never having to stop and fill-up or charge is a dream.
kasperni 1y ago
> No. The damage to Tesla's reputation has already been done, and the only way to fix it is for the board to fire Elon Musk as CEO. Maybe in the USA. But I don't think it would make much of a difference in a lot of countries. It is still an American car with a stained past.
sunflowerfly 1y ago
Exactly this. The difference in a “red” or “blue” state is usually only about 5% of the population. The only place this is not true is DC.

by elihu 1y ago

klik99 1y ago

Honestly if he announced tomorrow "Hey that was a hell of a bender, and I regret it - I'm leaving politics and focusing on running my companies" and he actually STUCK to that, then I'd be happy. Mostly because I believe people are most dangerous when they think they have nothing to lose (I've heard privately he's talking a lot about being #2 assassination target after Trump) and get pushed into more extreme positions by the culture being so black and white these days. If he was truly out of politics I wouldn't give two cares if he's an asshole or not. But yeah, somehow I doubt he'll get over the sunk cost fallacy and just dip out of politics. He really needs to choose though - if he's going full into politics he should be really get out of Tesla. He's got pretty much full control over the Tesla board though, if I understand correctly.

Tadpole9181 1y ago
He did two Nazi salutes on national television, compromised national security, destroyed thousands of careers, compromised the security of public sector jobs, used his obscene wealth to try to buy votes twice while controlling and entire party into capitulation by threat of primary, used his roles to break federal law for advertisement purposes, abused his role to award himself contracts, has spent a decade lying to investors and consumers, is on ketamine, keeps getting caught trying to pay to impregnate women, conspired to destroy public infrastructure projects, and actively spreads toxic right-wing rhetoric while amplifying hate speech in social media. That's not even to mention the business itself in how he has failed to ever produce a successful product at Tesla since he purchased it (the Cybertruck is the only project not already started at acquisition). And if he just said "sowwy fow weelsies", you'd be okay with that? Are you kidding me? Is everyone just completely and totally ideologically bankrupt now? Does nobody have a single shred of common sense to avoid huksters?
apercu 1y ago
Naw. He’s a small little bitter angry man with daddy issues and low self esteem. No matter what he said I would never buy it. He’s a clown.

gexla 1y ago

As a board member, you would be unhappy? The board members represent the investors. As an investor, what would your assessment be for Tesla as part of your portfolio?

plugger 1y ago
The stock is down nearly 34% this year. Would you be happy with those metrics as an investor and/or board member? If the CEO of a company you invest in decided to alienate the majority of said company's customer base, would you be happy as an board member?
elihu 1y ago
Tesla's sales are dropping, in large part because many EV buyers would be embarrassed to be seen driving a car made by a company run by a guy that's actively dismantling the US government and who gave a Nazi salute at a rally when Trump was inaugurated. If they weren't selling carbon credits to other manufacturers, they'd be operating at a loss. If I were a Tesla shareholder, I'd be pessimistic about the company's future as long as Elon's name is associated with the brand. They were a highly successful company that made some of the most popular cars, but now their brand is toxic solely because of the actions of their CEO. Tesla is would be much better off without him.
- sunflowerfly 1y ago
  He has also not shown the ability to design new products. All of their vehicles except the Cyber Truck where in design when he bought the company. His one product is a flop.
- robocat 1y ago
  > selling carbon credits to other manufacturers Any links? That would mess with environmental arguments per dollar or km.
  - gruez 1y ago
    I think he meant CAFE credits, for other car companies that can't meet their CAFE obligations.

tzs 1y ago

Massachusetts might be partly due to economics. It has a combination of low gas prices and high electric prices that makes it the least favorable state for EVs. Using statewide average gas and electricity prices as of a couple weeks ago or so (whenever I last grabbed the data) a pure ICE RAV4 has a lower energy cost per mile than a Tesla Model Y (the trim with the highest MPGs) there on the highway. The Tesla still wins in the city. Change that Toyota to a RAV4 Hybrid (non-plug in) and then the RAV4 wins both highway and city. Go for a Prius and then there are 8 states where the Prius beats the Tesla on both city and highway (Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont). There are two where the Prius wins highway but not city: California and New Jersey. The states most favorable to EVs are Washington, Idaho, North Dakota, Utah, Nebraska, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Missouri, South Dakota, Iowa, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma. In those states gas prices would have to fall about 60% (Washington) to 35% (Oklahoma) for the Prius to win. It's interesting that most of the states where energy prices most favor EVs are red states. Note: the above was using residential electricity prices. For people that can't charge at home the Prius will win a lot more. Around here the best commercial charging is about twice what residential charging costs. If that holds elsewhere then I think only about 8 states would have the Tesla come out ahead of the Prius.

mingus88 1y ago
Yes I think EVs don’t make sense for most people who rent. Unfortunately that’s a large segment of people. My residential rate is $0.11 per kWh and $0.56 at an electrify America charger. That’s a steep hike for those who can’t install a charger at home. Waking up in the morning to a fully charged car, for a fraction of a gallon of gas ($4.60 here) and never having to stop and fill-up or charge is a dream.

kasperni 1y ago

> No. The damage to Tesla's reputation has already been done, and the only way to fix it is for the board to fire Elon Musk as CEO. Maybe in the USA. But I don't think it would make much of a difference in a lot of countries. It is still an American car with a stained past.

sunflowerfly 1y ago

Exactly this. The difference in a “red” or “blue” state is usually only about 5% of the population. The only place this is not true is DC.