6 ms·

I remember trying to explain to some colleagues why I paid about 100 bucks for the font I use and why I wouldn’t share it with them and they just couldn’t get i

I remember trying to explain to some colleagues why I paid about 100 bucks for the font I use and why I wouldn’t share it with them and they just couldn’t get it. (It’s Berkeley mono). I don’t even know how many glyphs it is (it’s thousands) but for something I’m looking at for 6-8 hours a day, every single day and is the absolute peak of perfection (at least to me), 100 bucks seems like a fucking bargain to me. shrug I guess these folks never sold something they made completely by themselves maybe.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Suppafly 2y ago
>shrug I guess these folks never sold something they made completely by themselves maybe. Not saying font designers shouldn't get paid, but they mostly aren't making things "completely by themselves", they are mostly making derivative works from things that exist, without any consideration for the original authors.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  What do you suppose they should do to the original authors? Perhaps the original author is Claude Garamond who died in the sixteenth century? Or the unknown workers who carved the inscription at Trajan's column in the second century AD?
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    So you understand the issue, it's derivative works all the way down.
    - xboxnolifes 2y ago
      When people say "make completely by themselves", they don't mean that were not influenced by literally no prior works. Artists can say they painted an original work entirely by themselves without needing a pedant to mention that they were probably influenced by prior work.
    - jzacharia 2y ago
      at a high enough level of abstraction, all creative work is derivative. wouldn't call it an "issue"
      - Suppafly 2y ago
        >at a high enough level of abstraction, all creative work is derivative. Sure, but with fonts you have basically one level between the font they are 'developing' and the one they are copying from. There is work involved, but very little of it is creative work.
    - mikey_p 2y ago
      Clearly nothing based on Latin script can be original, which itself is based on the Etruscan Old italic alphabet, which itself it based on the Euboean alphabet — ergo, any typeface developed after say the 8th century BC is just a silly derivative. Everything is derivative, there is nothing new under the sun, and your argument proves nothing.
shadowgovt 2y ago
Never really considered it, but taking a quick glance: yes, I'd pay $100 for that too, especially as my main font for programming interface.
homebrewer 2y ago
The "peak of perfection" does not support even just European languages, not having full coverage even for Latin scripts. But it's a "love letter for the golden age of computing", and the golden age had massive problems with scripts for languages other than English, so maybe it's intentional. https://usgraphics.com/static/products/TX-02/datasheet/TX-02-datasheet.a43c0c7f8d8c.pdf https://usgraphics.com/static/products/TX-02/datasheet/TX-02...
- wyager 2y ago
  What percentage of monospace text on the internet uses random obscure glyphs? This isn't really a practical problem.
  - scripturial 2y ago
    Pretty much anyone coding in another language. Coders do sometimes buy fonts if they are into fonts and nice terminals.
    - wyager 2y ago
      To reiterate the original question: "what percentage"?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - kiitos 1y ago
        What do you think are "random obscure glyphs"? Is the Turkish lowercase 'i' (ı) one of them? What about the German Eszett (ß)? Is 'ö' a random obscure glyph? What about 'ø'?
        wyager 1y ago
        Yes, those are obscure and unlikely to naturally show up in monospace texts. What percentage of computer programs do you think are written in turkish?
jmb99 2y ago
> shrug I guess these folks never sold something they made completely by themselves maybe Ignoring that they likely didn’t make it completely by themselves (standing on the shoulders of giants and such), it’s quite possible that those people don’t believe that a file should cost money. I’ve made a few things as close to “completely by myself” as possible and given them away for free, and those were physical objects - I lose it when I give it away! I have absolutely no problem giving away 1s and 0s for free, I can make as many copies of the original as I want with no additional effort. Of course we don’t live in a world where everyone can follow their passions without needing money in return for sharing the result with the world, so it’s fully understandable people want to sell their art. It’s disingenuous and reductive to assume that anyone who doesn’t want to pay for art has never made anything completely by themselves, though.
kstrauser 2y ago
Same for me, same font, same logic. The author put a lot of hands-on work into making something I stare at all day long. I even just bought a license for a friend for his birthday because I love it. But I'm not sharing my copy with anyone else. This isn't insulin or something. They'll be just fine without it.
gus_massa 2y ago
> Berkeley Mono Link for the lazy https://neil.computer/notes/berkeley-mono-font-variant-popularity/ https://neil.computer/notes/berkeley-mono-font-variant-popul...
- snypher 2y ago
  And ofc there was a HN discussion; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38322793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38322793
edm0nd 2y ago
how does that work? you set this font to be used by all your computers and devices?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Suppafly 2y ago

>shrug I guess these folks never sold something they made completely by themselves maybe. Not saying font designers shouldn't get paid, but they mostly aren't making things "completely by themselves", they are mostly making derivative works from things that exist, without any consideration for the original authors.

kccqzy 2y ago
What do you suppose they should do to the original authors? Perhaps the original author is Claude Garamond who died in the sixteenth century? Or the unknown workers who carved the inscription at Trajan's column in the second century AD?
- Suppafly 2y ago
  So you understand the issue, it's derivative works all the way down.
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    When people say "make completely by themselves", they don't mean that were not influenced by literally no prior works. Artists can say they painted an original work entirely by themselves without needing a pedant to mention that they were probably influenced by prior work.
  - jzacharia 2y ago
    at a high enough level of abstraction, all creative work is derivative. wouldn't call it an "issue"
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      >at a high enough level of abstraction, all creative work is derivative. Sure, but with fonts you have basically one level between the font they are 'developing' and the one they are copying from. There is work involved, but very little of it is creative work.
  - mikey_p 2y ago
    Clearly nothing based on Latin script can be original, which itself is based on the Etruscan Old italic alphabet, which itself it based on the Euboean alphabet — ergo, any typeface developed after say the 8th century BC is just a silly derivative. Everything is derivative, there is nothing new under the sun, and your argument proves nothing.

shadowgovt 2y ago

Never really considered it, but taking a quick glance: yes, I'd pay $100 for that too, especially as my main font for programming interface.

homebrewer 2y ago

The "peak of perfection" does not support even just European languages, not having full coverage even for Latin scripts. But it's a "love letter for the golden age of computing", and the golden age had massive problems with scripts for languages other than English, so maybe it's intentional. https://usgraphics.com/static/products/TX-02/datasheet/TX-02-datasheet.a43c0c7f8d8c.pdf https://usgraphics.com/static/products/TX-02/datasheet/TX-02...

wyager 2y ago
What percentage of monospace text on the internet uses random obscure glyphs? This isn't really a practical problem.
- scripturial 2y ago
  Pretty much anyone coding in another language. Coders do sometimes buy fonts if they are into fonts and nice terminals.
  - wyager 2y ago
    To reiterate the original question: "what percentage"?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - kiitos 1y ago
      What do you think are "random obscure glyphs"? Is the Turkish lowercase 'i' (ı) one of them? What about the German Eszett (ß)? Is 'ö' a random obscure glyph? What about 'ø'?
      - wyager 1y ago
        Yes, those are obscure and unlikely to naturally show up in monospace texts. What percentage of computer programs do you think are written in turkish?

jmb99 2y ago

> shrug I guess these folks never sold something they made completely by themselves maybe Ignoring that they likely didn’t make it completely by themselves (standing on the shoulders of giants and such), it’s quite possible that those people don’t believe that a file should cost money. I’ve made a few things as close to “completely by myself” as possible and given them away for free, and those were physical objects - I lose it when I give it away! I have absolutely no problem giving away 1s and 0s for free, I can make as many copies of the original as I want with no additional effort. Of course we don’t live in a world where everyone can follow their passions without needing money in return for sharing the result with the world, so it’s fully understandable people want to sell their art. It’s disingenuous and reductive to assume that anyone who doesn’t want to pay for art has never made anything completely by themselves, though.

kstrauser 2y ago

Same for me, same font, same logic. The author put a lot of hands-on work into making something I stare at all day long. I even just bought a license for a friend for his birthday because I love it. But I'm not sharing my copy with anyone else. This isn't insulin or something. They'll be just fine without it.

gus_massa 2y ago

> Berkeley Mono Link for the lazy https://neil.computer/notes/berkeley-mono-font-variant-popularity/ https://neil.computer/notes/berkeley-mono-font-variant-popul...

snypher 2y ago
And ofc there was a HN discussion; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38322793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38322793

edm0nd 2y ago

how does that work? you set this font to be used by all your computers and devices?