3 ms·

Tools like valgrind/asan/msan would have flagged this instantly too. Just a unit test of that vehicle loader would have seen it. Really this is more a story a

by ajross 2y ago

Tools like valgrind/asan/msan would have flagged this instantly too. Just a unit test of that vehicle loader would have seen it. Really this is more a story about poor development practice than it is an interesting bug.

Thaxll 2y ago
As if tools in early 2000's were any good...
- ajross 2y ago
  Valgrind was released in 2002 to immediate celebration. It was available and surely known to the team. All they needed to do was write a unit test that loaded and instantiated those vehicle files and run it with "valgrind" in front of the command line.
  - gmueckl 2y ago
    I don't know whether Valgrind ever gained support for any of the GTA target platforms. It wasn't available on Windows for a very, very long time.
    - zerd 2y ago
      Still isn't available for windows from what I gather.
  - db48x 2y ago
    It was available and widely celebrated, but there was no guarantee that these Windows and console developers had heard of it yet or that they could have used it if they had.
  - zerd 2y ago
    I tried to use Valgrind to catch pretty much this exact bug 20 years ago, and it was nigh impossible. If you call any 3rd party code it'll have flag tens of thousands of false positives that you have to sift through. And that was on a small game engine, I can't imagine running it on millions of lines of code.
    - ajross 2y ago
      Again, you don't valgrind a whole game. You valgrind your unit tests. Even in 2004 when this game was released, and even in the game industry, unit testing was a routine thing. And this particular bug was in code very amenable to lightweight unit testing.
      - zerd 2y ago
        That would be assuming they knew there was a bug in that particular part of the code, which they probably didn't, until Windows 11 24H2. And unfortunately Valgrind doesn't work on windows.
  - Thaxll 2y ago
    Valgrind does not run on Windows.
avidiax 2y ago
Problem with valgrind/asan/msan is that you have to start using these tools early in the development process. It can't be a "checklist" item before launch, or you'll have an insurmountable number of bugs, often with them baked in such that fixing the bug causes additional changes that introduce unrelated bugs.

by ajross 2y ago

Thaxll 2y ago

As if tools in early 2000's were any good...

ajross 2y ago
Valgrind was released in 2002 to immediate celebration. It was available and surely known to the team. All they needed to do was write a unit test that loaded and instantiated those vehicle files and run it with "valgrind" in front of the command line.
- gmueckl 2y ago
  I don't know whether Valgrind ever gained support for any of the GTA target platforms. It wasn't available on Windows for a very, very long time.
  - zerd 2y ago
    Still isn't available for windows from what I gather.
- db48x 2y ago
  It was available and widely celebrated, but there was no guarantee that these Windows and console developers had heard of it yet or that they could have used it if they had.
- zerd 2y ago
  I tried to use Valgrind to catch pretty much this exact bug 20 years ago, and it was nigh impossible. If you call any 3rd party code it'll have flag tens of thousands of false positives that you have to sift through. And that was on a small game engine, I can't imagine running it on millions of lines of code.
  - ajross 2y ago
    Again, you don't valgrind a whole game. You valgrind your unit tests. Even in 2004 when this game was released, and even in the game industry, unit testing was a routine thing. And this particular bug was in code very amenable to lightweight unit testing.
    - zerd 2y ago
      That would be assuming they knew there was a bug in that particular part of the code, which they probably didn't, until Windows 11 24H2. And unfortunately Valgrind doesn't work on windows.
- Thaxll 2y ago
  Valgrind does not run on Windows.

avidiax 2y ago

Problem with valgrind/asan/msan is that you have to start using these tools early in the development process. It can't be a "checklist" item before launch, or you'll have an insurmountable number of bugs, often with them baked in such that fixing the bug causes additional changes that introduce unrelated bugs.