4 ms·

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." The rest of us can meet up every couple millennia around Alpha Centauri for an old-home week.

by ctoth 1y ago

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
janalsncm 1y ago
That is a much darker tone that I’ve ever thought of that passage in. On a slightly related note, I think a lot of people today don’t realize when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom of Heaven” many of his audience heard that as a real, physical kingdom which would overthrow Rome. I believe Jesus also believed this, which to me is why Jesus’ dying words (“My God, why have you forsaken me?”) is quite literally an admission that his political project had failed.
- lurk2 1y ago
  > I believe Jesus also believed this Jesus predicted his death several times, most explicitly in Matthew 20:17–19. > Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.” - Matthew 20:17–19
  - alganet 1y ago
    It is known that the specifics of the story were modified. The current text is kind of frozen by its own similarities to itself. The use of extracted quotes is probably a mistake. You have to find the same event in a lot of other books beyond Matthew to be able to find a tiny whiff of historical information, very faint, very difficult to do with translated versions.
    - dmonitor 1y ago
      Luke 17:20-37 also seems to support the idea that Jesus was trying to tell people the kingdom was spiritual, not physical. The kingdom as a concept wasn't some novel idea, either. Jesus was claiming he was the fulfillment of the messianic prophecy in Judaism. He was reinterpreting the prophecy, though, as a spiritual rather than literal liberation. Tangential, but you can interpret the anti-christ in christian belief to bring the alleged kingdom, as a sort of anti-fulfillment of the prophecy.
      - alganet 1y ago
        All of these declared disputes in meaning, names and events is precisely what I am referring to. One could argue that Jesus is the book itself anthropomorphized, edited so many times by so many sinners (crossed), that whatever salvation was contained within (a prophecy, a guide, a story) is not there anymore. It only serves to spare those who changed and betrayed it (to support churches and beliefs not originally present in it). Thus, the book died. It is said that once it briefly was brought back to life. It is a reference from the New Testament to itself. Then it died again (once a living, thriving narrative of human history constantly being augmented, now unable to be that again, eternally locked in disputes and conflicted interpretations, thus, dead).
      - eli_gottlieb 1y ago
        The "Kingdom of Heaven" was not a contemporary concept in first-century CE Judaism, to my knowledge.
        dmonitor 1y ago
        Not that term, but a Messiah that will establish / lead a powerful Jewish nation was
        eli_gottlieb 1y ago
        Sure, but that was believed not only literally but very literally, as referring to the political liberation of the Jews from Roman rule.
- selimthegrim 1y ago
  I’m assuming you read The Passover Plot?
  - janalsncm 1y ago
    A lot of related books a while ago that I’ve mostly forgotten. I believe it was called “How Jesus Became Christian” which mainly talks about the influence of Paul.

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." The rest of us can meet up every couple millennia around Alpha Centauri for an old-home week.

by ctoth 1y ago

"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." The rest of us can meet up every couple millennia around Alpha Centauri for an old-home week.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

janalsncm 1y ago

That is a much darker tone that I’ve ever thought of that passage in. On a slightly related note, I think a lot of people today don’t realize when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom of Heaven” many of his audience heard that as a real, physical kingdom which would overthrow Rome. I believe Jesus also believed this, which to me is why Jesus’ dying words (“My God, why have you forsaken me?”) is quite literally an admission that his political project had failed.

lurk2 1y ago
> I believe Jesus also believed this Jesus predicted his death several times, most explicitly in Matthew 20:17–19. > Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.” - Matthew 20:17–19
- alganet 1y ago
  It is known that the specifics of the story were modified. The current text is kind of frozen by its own similarities to itself. The use of extracted quotes is probably a mistake. You have to find the same event in a lot of other books beyond Matthew to be able to find a tiny whiff of historical information, very faint, very difficult to do with translated versions.
  - dmonitor 1y ago
    Luke 17:20-37 also seems to support the idea that Jesus was trying to tell people the kingdom was spiritual, not physical. The kingdom as a concept wasn't some novel idea, either. Jesus was claiming he was the fulfillment of the messianic prophecy in Judaism. He was reinterpreting the prophecy, though, as a spiritual rather than literal liberation. Tangential, but you can interpret the anti-christ in christian belief to bring the alleged kingdom, as a sort of anti-fulfillment of the prophecy.
    - alganet 1y ago
      All of these declared disputes in meaning, names and events is precisely what I am referring to. One could argue that Jesus is the book itself anthropomorphized, edited so many times by so many sinners (crossed), that whatever salvation was contained within (a prophecy, a guide, a story) is not there anymore. It only serves to spare those who changed and betrayed it (to support churches and beliefs not originally present in it). Thus, the book died. It is said that once it briefly was brought back to life. It is a reference from the New Testament to itself. Then it died again (once a living, thriving narrative of human history constantly being augmented, now unable to be that again, eternally locked in disputes and conflicted interpretations, thus, dead).
    - eli_gottlieb 1y ago
      The "Kingdom of Heaven" was not a contemporary concept in first-century CE Judaism, to my knowledge.
      - dmonitor 1y ago
        Not that term, but a Messiah that will establish / lead a powerful Jewish nation was
        eli_gottlieb 1y ago
        Sure, but that was believed not only literally but very literally, as referring to the political liberation of the Jews from Roman rule.
selimthegrim 1y ago
I’m assuming you read The Passover Plot?
- janalsncm 1y ago
  A lot of related books a while ago that I’ve mostly forgotten. I believe it was called “How Jesus Became Christian” which mainly talks about the influence of Paul.