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From what I hear, users are tired of installing apps. You can make a website and not face any gatekeepers or restrictions.

popol12 2y ago
What if your app needs to send notifications and/or use bluetooth, for instance ?
- intrasight 2y ago
  From what I hear, most users disable notifications. You can do like Airbnb and send text messages. You can do Bluetooth in JavaScript through the Web Bluetooth API.
  - Sayrus 2y ago
    A little caveat of Web Bluetooth API is that it's like WebUSB and mostly available on Chrome. I don't think Chrome for iOS is using blink yet so you'll probably not have access to this API on iOS.
    - madeofpalk 2y ago
      Both WebUSB and WebBluetooth is still a draft spec, and is doubtful to progress any further with both Mozilla and Webkit objecting to it https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#web-bluetooth https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#web-bluetooth https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/#anti-fingerprinting https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/#anti-fingerprinting Essentially, these are proprietary that are a part of an embrace, extend, and extinguish strategy by Google Chrome.
  - thoroughburro 2y ago
    > From what I hear, most users disable notifications. Where’d you hear that? Surely most users don’t change defaults.
    - acdha 2y ago
      There isn’t a default on iOS, you’re prompted for each new app when it requests notification permissions. People have found that users hit no a lot more when the app prompts with no explanation than when it clearly explains what benefit it has to the user.
    - rini17 2y ago
      Then the flood of notifications gets ignored, with practically the same result.
- darekkay 2y ago
  There are web APIs for both.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Not on iOS. There’s no Bluetooth support in safari.
  - JimDabell 2y ago
    “Web Bluetooth” is a Blink-only API that both Mozilla and Apple rejected on security grounds.
    - mdhb 2y ago
      What a weird thing to put in scare quotes.
- acdha 2y ago
  All modern browsers support notifications: https://caniuse.com/notifications https://caniuse.com/notifications Bluetooth is limited to Chrome because Apple and Mozilla were concerned about privacy and security: https://caniuse.com/web-bluetooth https://caniuse.com/web-bluetooth
- merek 2y ago
  PWAs offer support for push notifications [1], but apparently they are not as seamless as in native apps, especially on iOS. If you've never heard of PWAs [2], they allow you to add native mobile app functionality to a mobile website, including the ability to install your website as though it were an app, and ability to cache resources for offline use. I haven't worked on app development for a while, but when I did several years ago, all that was required to turn a mobile website in to a PWA was a service worker file (a JS file to define resource caching rules), and a manifest.json file (essentially metadata used by the home screen icon, including title and icon image). Apparently PWAs still aren't on par with native apps in terms of capability and UX. Nonetheless I hope PWAs become popular for their simplicity, and for being decoupled from platforms. It's a bit insane to me that native app development usually requires heavy platform specific IDEs (Android Studio, Xcode), both of which have steep learning curves, and after all that development effort, you only have an app that works on 1 platform. Building a basic mobile app shouldn't require anything more than HTML, JS and CSS, and it shouldn't be tied to any specific platform. 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps/Tutorials/js13kGames/Re-engageable_Notifications_Push https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... 2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...
  - Arkanum 2y ago
    AIUI Apple has deliberately kneecapped PWAs on iOS to stop them competing with their App Store.
- arrowsmith 2y ago
  Most apps that "need" to send notifications don't, in fact, need to.
  - popol12 2y ago
    Yeah but, what about apps that actually do ?
layer8 2y ago
Web apps offer a subpar experience.
immibis 2y ago
Meanwhile on Hacker News: "Web apps suck. Native apps are so much better. Why can't everything be a native app?"

popol12 2y ago

What if your app needs to send notifications and/or use bluetooth, for instance ?

intrasight 2y ago
From what I hear, most users disable notifications. You can do like Airbnb and send text messages. You can do Bluetooth in JavaScript through the Web Bluetooth API.
- Sayrus 2y ago
  A little caveat of Web Bluetooth API is that it's like WebUSB and mostly available on Chrome. I don't think Chrome for iOS is using blink yet so you'll probably not have access to this API on iOS.
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    Both WebUSB and WebBluetooth is still a draft spec, and is doubtful to progress any further with both Mozilla and Webkit objecting to it https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#web-bluetooth https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#web-bluetooth https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/#anti-fingerprinting https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/#anti-fingerprinting Essentially, these are proprietary that are a part of an embrace, extend, and extinguish strategy by Google Chrome.
- thoroughburro 2y ago
  > From what I hear, most users disable notifications. Where’d you hear that? Surely most users don’t change defaults.
  - acdha 2y ago
    There isn’t a default on iOS, you’re prompted for each new app when it requests notification permissions. People have found that users hit no a lot more when the app prompts with no explanation than when it clearly explains what benefit it has to the user.
  - rini17 2y ago
    Then the flood of notifications gets ignored, with practically the same result.
darekkay 2y ago
There are web APIs for both.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Not on iOS. There’s no Bluetooth support in safari.
- JimDabell 2y ago
  “Web Bluetooth” is a Blink-only API that both Mozilla and Apple rejected on security grounds.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    What a weird thing to put in scare quotes.
acdha 2y ago
All modern browsers support notifications: https://caniuse.com/notifications https://caniuse.com/notifications Bluetooth is limited to Chrome because Apple and Mozilla were concerned about privacy and security: https://caniuse.com/web-bluetooth https://caniuse.com/web-bluetooth
merek 2y ago
PWAs offer support for push notifications [1], but apparently they are not as seamless as in native apps, especially on iOS. If you've never heard of PWAs [2], they allow you to add native mobile app functionality to a mobile website, including the ability to install your website as though it were an app, and ability to cache resources for offline use. I haven't worked on app development for a while, but when I did several years ago, all that was required to turn a mobile website in to a PWA was a service worker file (a JS file to define resource caching rules), and a manifest.json file (essentially metadata used by the home screen icon, including title and icon image). Apparently PWAs still aren't on par with native apps in terms of capability and UX. Nonetheless I hope PWAs become popular for their simplicity, and for being decoupled from platforms. It's a bit insane to me that native app development usually requires heavy platform specific IDEs (Android Studio, Xcode), both of which have steep learning curves, and after all that development effort, you only have an app that works on 1 platform. Building a basic mobile app shouldn't require anything more than HTML, JS and CSS, and it shouldn't be tied to any specific platform. 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps/Tutorials/js13kGames/Re-engageable_Notifications_Push https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... 2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...
- Arkanum 2y ago
  AIUI Apple has deliberately kneecapped PWAs on iOS to stop them competing with their App Store.
arrowsmith 2y ago
Most apps that "need" to send notifications don't, in fact, need to.
- popol12 2y ago
  Yeah but, what about apps that actually do ?

layer8 2y ago

Web apps offer a subpar experience.

immibis 2y ago

Meanwhile on Hacker News: "Web apps suck. Native apps are so much better. Why can't everything be a native app?"