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Insane that Apple put this PR up without at all contributing to the development fund. Didn't even put up an issue first haha.

azinman2 1y ago
If they did the work, what’s wrong with that?
- tapoxi 1y ago
  Are they going to do the ongoing maintenance if this is merged in?
  - wfme 1y ago
    Looks like it would be in their interest to do so, so yeah I don’t see why not.
    - hobofan 1y ago
      There are many things that would be in Apple's interest to do, but they aren't so that's a complete non-argument. I think it's a very valid question to ask, as many open source projects I've seen in the past that had to interface with Apple on the developer tooling front had to go through constant pain, as Apple isn't willing to e.g. provide references for certain .plist files, forcing many project to try and reverse-engineer what they do. More precisely there are usually people inside Apple willing to do that, but incapable to do that due to internal structures that result in a lack of clearly defined ownership. So given that, I would say that if/once the original contributor of this PR moves on(/is made to move on) from that project, there is a good chance that this would also mark the end of cooperation from Apple's side.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    This question is asked and answered in the linked PR thread.
    - MegaDeKay 1y ago
      If you are talking about this link [0], the person answering is from the Godot team and not Apple. [0] https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecomment-2820668540 https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecommen...
- skeptrune 1y ago
  Maintainers have to review the PR, answer Apple's "Open Questions", and support their users who want to build with the new functionality long term. Laughably, it looks like the PR didn't even compile...[1] > When you try and bundle, it will fail. The library paths are incorrect. [1]: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#pullrequestreview-2785034790 https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#pullrequest...
  - blitzar 1y ago
    Apple really are not sending their finest.
- jchw 1y ago
  There's more to development than just code. I'm sure the Godot developers value the contribution and will try to make the most of it, but they got zero input into how to implement it and this PR contains a lot of issues (e.g. it does some API breaking changes that can't just be done as-is.) On top of that, they have no idea (from the outset, I mean: obviously they are communicating now) if Apple intends to continue maintaining this code in the long run or if they just want to put the minimum amount of effort into shipping it and then consider that box checked, shifting the maintenance burden to volunteers. I don't think there needs to be intentional malice, even very nice gestures can work out poorly; we almost lost the Linux NTFS3 driver because Paragon initially stopped maintaining it and nobody else stepped up. I think Apple can do good here but they should definitely communicate better. For open source, early and often is a good idea. (Though also good to follow through... I have been guilty of many licked cookies purely by accident and poor focus.)

azinman2 1y ago

If they did the work, what’s wrong with that?

tapoxi 1y ago
Are they going to do the ongoing maintenance if this is merged in?
- wfme 1y ago
  Looks like it would be in their interest to do so, so yeah I don’t see why not.
  - hobofan 1y ago
    There are many things that would be in Apple's interest to do, but they aren't so that's a complete non-argument. I think it's a very valid question to ask, as many open source projects I've seen in the past that had to interface with Apple on the developer tooling front had to go through constant pain, as Apple isn't willing to e.g. provide references for certain .plist files, forcing many project to try and reverse-engineer what they do. More precisely there are usually people inside Apple willing to do that, but incapable to do that due to internal structures that result in a lack of clearly defined ownership. So given that, I would say that if/once the original contributor of this PR moves on(/is made to move on) from that project, there is a good chance that this would also mark the end of cooperation from Apple's side.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  This question is asked and answered in the linked PR thread.
  - MegaDeKay 1y ago
    If you are talking about this link [0], the person answering is from the Godot team and not Apple. [0] https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecomment-2820668540 https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecommen...
skeptrune 1y ago
Maintainers have to review the PR, answer Apple's "Open Questions", and support their users who want to build with the new functionality long term. Laughably, it looks like the PR didn't even compile...[1] > When you try and bundle, it will fail. The library paths are incorrect. [1]: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#pullrequestreview-2785034790 https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#pullrequest...
- blitzar 1y ago
  Apple really are not sending their finest.
jchw 1y ago
There's more to development than just code. I'm sure the Godot developers value the contribution and will try to make the most of it, but they got zero input into how to implement it and this PR contains a lot of issues (e.g. it does some API breaking changes that can't just be done as-is.) On top of that, they have no idea (from the outset, I mean: obviously they are communicating now) if Apple intends to continue maintaining this code in the long run or if they just want to put the minimum amount of effort into shipping it and then consider that box checked, shifting the maintenance burden to volunteers. I don't think there needs to be intentional malice, even very nice gestures can work out poorly; we almost lost the Linux NTFS3 driver because Paragon initially stopped maintaining it and nobody else stepped up. I think Apple can do good here but they should definitely communicate better. For open source, early and often is a good idea. (Though also good to follow through... I have been guilty of many licked cookies purely by accident and poor focus.)