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It looks like Apple put their own people on this one. If they want to maintain this, the Godot foundation needs to be extremely clear about that. You're talkin

It looks like Apple put their own people on this one. If they want to maintain this, the Godot foundation needs to be extremely clear about that. You're talking about an extremely niche platform that will require tons of ongoing maintenance. I would have hoped Apple also spent time working on the general engine and maybe tackling some bugs. Maybe they did maybe they didn't.

andsoitis 2y ago
Even debating support for a niche platform is a distraction. Noise.
- dewey 2y ago
  Niche platform from one of the biggest companies on the planet isn’t as niche as others though. If there’s a way to get first party support from the vendor directly it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS).
  - andsoitis 2y ago
    > it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS). In what way? As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. If true, Godot has nothing to gain. Apple is struggling with adoption so they have most to gain from Godot support for visionOS, but is not obvious that visionOS support would benefit Godot in any strategic manner. One strategic heuristic is that you don’t want to undertake the work to enable another company’s success on a product line, unless you depend on it or believe you have a strategic advantage against other competitors. For example, if Godot negotiates for exclusivity or primary status for game engine positioning on visionOS and they believe VR is a material future footprint, that might be interesting. Anything less is in Apple’s favor and not in Godot’s.
    - dewey 2y ago
      I'll leave this decision to the Godot maintainers but as an outside that only read the PR and comments it seems plausible that it's also in Apples favor to fix issues in the shared iOS / visionOS codebase that they are using, especially if they might come from Apple APIs that could be improved on their side too.
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      exclusivity ?? its an open source project why would they want that, its not a competition :p
      - andsoitis 2y ago
        Godot is absolutely in competition with other game engines.
        spencerflem 2y ago
        I don't know the Godot ppl, but I hang out on the LibGDX discord and what they want is to make a good engine for its own sake. If someone would be better served with Unity or Godot or anything else they're extremely quick to say so. The point is to make the world better not for their own project to Win. I'm assuming Godot is the same way, and the idea of spending effort making sure every other OSS engine doesn't have VisionOS support is a lil baffling
    - klausa 2y ago
      >As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. Yes, and now it has gotten to the point where it clearly has been noticed by Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too. Is that not... the ideal scenario here? You have community contribute a port for a big platform, the company notices, and starts contributing too.
      - andsoitis 2y ago
        > Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too. To think Apple is interested in the success of Godot would be a mistake. It might feel like a compliment, but it would be a trap because Apple’s interest stems from increasing the chances of visionOS success and will be happy to externalize the ongoing maintenance tax to Godot. Unless Godot feels they need visionOS then it isn’t in their interest to entertain Apple’s PR. If anything they should respond saying they already support standard interface in the form of OpenXR.
        dewey 2y ago
        Did you get burned by a company contributing to an open source project before or what makes you so cynical about this PR? I feel like it's the ideal scenario that a company actually dedicates engineers and time to contribute to an open source project instead of doing their own thing, maybe even behind closed doors.
        andsoitis 2y ago
        I’m invested in the success of Godot and fear the visionOS distraction dilutes the urgency that’s needed to compete with Unreal and Unity. Additionally, if Godot accepts this PR and related ongoing work, it would signal to me poor strategic judgment. Many an open source project progress slows down under the burden of supporting immaterial platforms.
        dagmx 2y ago
        Have you contributed to Godot yourself or made something of note with it? Multiple developers are actively asking for visionOS support as people on the Godot team have mentioned. Why should your distaste for a platform preclude them from having platform support that would benefit the things they want to build? Beyond that, have you even looked at the PR here to see what your supposed distraction would be? Most of the PR is shared infrastructure between the Apple embedded platforms.
nopakos 2y ago
And since Apple is here, please help adding support for Apple TV. Apple and Android TV support sometimes makes the difference when choosing an engine.
- macintosh-hd 2y ago
  One of the comments says another team is working on Apple TV.
- dynjo 2y ago
  They already said they plan to do this in the PR.
- andsoitis 2y ago
  Apple TV for games is super niche, with very little market share in the big scheme of things. Even when it comes to TV, Apple realized they had to create an Apple TV+ app for other platforms to extend the reach of their investment in shows/movies beyond their own hardware.
  - KeplerBoy 2y ago
    There are however some games which thrive on apple tv. The virtual cycling game zwift is probably one of the most important apple tv games, it's the recommended system to get the game running on the cheap. So, if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice.
    - andsoitis 2y ago
      > if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice. Compared to other HDMI-connected devices (e.g. Google Streamer fka ChromeCast, Amazon FireTV, Roku) or major TV platforms like Android TV or Samsung and LG, the market share that Apple TV commands is dwarfed. Apple TV devices are also very expensive. A startup like Zwift that bets on Apple TV as a key GTM strategy is making an error in judgment. Apple TV is extreme long tail footprint.

andsoitis 2y ago

Even debating support for a niche platform is a distraction. Noise.

dewey 2y ago
Niche platform from one of the biggest companies on the planet isn’t as niche as others though. If there’s a way to get first party support from the vendor directly it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS).
- andsoitis 2y ago
  > it could be beneficial to the other platforms too (iOS). In what way? As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. If true, Godot has nothing to gain. Apple is struggling with adoption so they have most to gain from Godot support for visionOS, but is not obvious that visionOS support would benefit Godot in any strategic manner. One strategic heuristic is that you don’t want to undertake the work to enable another company’s success on a product line, unless you depend on it or believe you have a strategic advantage against other competitors. For example, if Godot negotiates for exclusivity or primary status for game engine positioning on visionOS and they believe VR is a material future footprint, that might be interesting. Anything less is in Apple’s favor and not in Godot’s.
  - dewey 2y ago
    I'll leave this decision to the Godot maintainers but as an outside that only read the PR and comments it seems plausible that it's also in Apples favor to fix issues in the shared iOS / visionOS codebase that they are using, especially if they might come from Apple APIs that could be improved on their side too.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    exclusivity ?? its an open source project why would they want that, its not a competition :p
    - andsoitis 2y ago
      Godot is absolutely in competition with other game engines.
      - spencerflem 2y ago
        I don't know the Godot ppl, but I hang out on the LibGDX discord and what they want is to make a good engine for its own sake. If someone would be better served with Unity or Godot or anything else they're extremely quick to say so. The point is to make the world better not for their own project to Win. I'm assuming Godot is the same way, and the idea of spending effort making sure every other OSS engine doesn't have VisionOS support is a lil baffling
  - klausa 2y ago
    >As far as I know, iOS support on Godot is almost entirely community-driven. Yes, and now it has gotten to the point where it clearly has been noticed by Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too. Is that not... the ideal scenario here? You have community contribute a port for a big platform, the company notices, and starts contributing too.
    - andsoitis 2y ago
      > Apple; and they're eager to contribute back to it too. To think Apple is interested in the success of Godot would be a mistake. It might feel like a compliment, but it would be a trap because Apple’s interest stems from increasing the chances of visionOS success and will be happy to externalize the ongoing maintenance tax to Godot. Unless Godot feels they need visionOS then it isn’t in their interest to entertain Apple’s PR. If anything they should respond saying they already support standard interface in the form of OpenXR.
      - dewey 2y ago
        Did you get burned by a company contributing to an open source project before or what makes you so cynical about this PR? I feel like it's the ideal scenario that a company actually dedicates engineers and time to contribute to an open source project instead of doing their own thing, maybe even behind closed doors.
        andsoitis 2y ago
        I’m invested in the success of Godot and fear the visionOS distraction dilutes the urgency that’s needed to compete with Unreal and Unity. Additionally, if Godot accepts this PR and related ongoing work, it would signal to me poor strategic judgment. Many an open source project progress slows down under the burden of supporting immaterial platforms.
        dagmx 2y ago
        Have you contributed to Godot yourself or made something of note with it? Multiple developers are actively asking for visionOS support as people on the Godot team have mentioned. Why should your distaste for a platform preclude them from having platform support that would benefit the things they want to build? Beyond that, have you even looked at the PR here to see what your supposed distraction would be? Most of the PR is shared infrastructure between the Apple embedded platforms.

nopakos 2y ago

And since Apple is here, please help adding support for Apple TV. Apple and Android TV support sometimes makes the difference when choosing an engine.

macintosh-hd 2y ago
One of the comments says another team is working on Apple TV.
dynjo 2y ago
They already said they plan to do this in the PR.
andsoitis 2y ago
Apple TV for games is super niche, with very little market share in the big scheme of things. Even when it comes to TV, Apple realized they had to create an Apple TV+ app for other platforms to extend the reach of their investment in shows/movies beyond their own hardware.
- KeplerBoy 2y ago
  There are however some games which thrive on apple tv. The virtual cycling game zwift is probably one of the most important apple tv games, it's the recommended system to get the game running on the cheap. So, if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice.
  - andsoitis 2y ago
    > if you're making an app that benefits from a big screen and your customers are willing to buy a cheap dedicated device to easily use your app on a big screen, supporting apple tv might be a very sensible choice. Compared to other HDMI-connected devices (e.g. Google Streamer fka ChromeCast, Amazon FireTV, Roku) or major TV platforms like Android TV or Samsung and LG, the market share that Apple TV commands is dwarfed. Apple TV devices are also very expensive. A startup like Zwift that bets on Apple TV as a key GTM strategy is making an error in judgment. Apple TV is extreme long tail footprint.