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They are not selling the hardware. They are taking your money in exchange for the privilege of utilizing the hardware they created to use a service they built s

They are not selling the hardware. They are taking your money in exchange for the privilege of utilizing the hardware they created to use a service they built so their customers can obtain data about your usage of the device and whatever it connects to. I fear that small companies without VC are the only ones interested in making a thing they sell that doesn’t require some ongoing commitment from buyers. And those companies run the risk of folding overnight. It’s fine for the customers since their hardware continues to function, but it’s not an attractive business model.

consp 2y ago
> but it’s not an attractive business model It's been the business model for over 100+ years with bikes. It's not an attractive VC buisness models as it cannot needlessly extract wealth beyond the product sale. It is double dipping as you fully pay for the bike, and people fall for it somehow.
- charcircuit 2y ago
  The electronic computer didn't exist 100+ years ago. You can't ignore the exponentially growth of technology that has happened and pretend that the market dynamics are the same that they were such a long time ago.
  - JadeNB 1y ago
    > The electronic computer didn't exist 100+ years ago. You can't ignore the exponentially growth of technology that has happened and pretend that the market dynamics are the same that they were such a long time ago. One can't argue that manufacturers won't try to get away with this stuff, because they will, but one can argue that it's parasitic rent-seeking, which it is. Certainly, there are new classes of device that can be made by leveraging new technology in previously impossible ways, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about classes of hardware that functioned perfectly well 100+ years ago (for a bike), or for other cases discussed in this thread less long ago but before the internet age, that are being artificially hobbled to allow additional revenue extraction.
pyfon 2y ago
Do a Dell. Sell the laptop. Sell support. This is a win win for customer and business.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
> so their customers can obtain data about your usage I can't prove it, but I suspect selling data is a very minor consideration in the appification of everything. Aside from there actually being people who like that kind of thing (and them apparently being more common than people who like physical forms of self-flagellation), the main benefit of appifying everything is the opportunity to sell you "value-add services", aka sell you a subscription for the hardware you already bought.
- myself248 2y ago
  I've been in the room when the decision was made to app-ify things. The revenue stream is 100% of the point.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
    The data revenue stream or the subscription revenue stream? How much revenue can you get from knowing when someone was doing their laundry?
    - myself248 1y ago
      Both, plus the captive advertising revenue stream. If you can push ads during the laundry app, or do tie-ins where a given detergent enables some bullshit feature...
      - myself248 1y ago
        Replying to myself here. I just found myself shopping for a washer and dryer, and indeed, ran across one that takes manufacturer-branded detergent cartridges and offers to order more, right in the app, when they run low. It can use third-party detergent by manually adding it at the start of the cycle, but adding some _during_ the cycle (which ultimately uses less) is only supported if using their cartridge. I wish I was making this up.

consp 2y ago

> but it’s not an attractive business model It's been the business model for over 100+ years with bikes. It's not an attractive VC buisness models as it cannot needlessly extract wealth beyond the product sale. It is double dipping as you fully pay for the bike, and people fall for it somehow.

charcircuit 2y ago
The electronic computer didn't exist 100+ years ago. You can't ignore the exponentially growth of technology that has happened and pretend that the market dynamics are the same that they were such a long time ago.
- JadeNB 1y ago
  > The electronic computer didn't exist 100+ years ago. You can't ignore the exponentially growth of technology that has happened and pretend that the market dynamics are the same that they were such a long time ago. One can't argue that manufacturers won't try to get away with this stuff, because they will, but one can argue that it's parasitic rent-seeking, which it is. Certainly, there are new classes of device that can be made by leveraging new technology in previously impossible ways, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about classes of hardware that functioned perfectly well 100+ years ago (for a bike), or for other cases discussed in this thread less long ago but before the internet age, that are being artificially hobbled to allow additional revenue extraction.

pyfon 2y ago

Do a Dell. Sell the laptop. Sell support. This is a win win for customer and business.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago

> so their customers can obtain data about your usage I can't prove it, but I suspect selling data is a very minor consideration in the appification of everything. Aside from there actually being people who like that kind of thing (and them apparently being more common than people who like physical forms of self-flagellation), the main benefit of appifying everything is the opportunity to sell you "value-add services", aka sell you a subscription for the hardware you already bought.

myself248 2y ago
I've been in the room when the decision was made to app-ify things. The revenue stream is 100% of the point.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  The data revenue stream or the subscription revenue stream? How much revenue can you get from knowing when someone was doing their laundry?
  - myself248 1y ago
    Both, plus the captive advertising revenue stream. If you can push ads during the laundry app, or do tie-ins where a given detergent enables some bullshit feature...
    - myself248 1y ago
      Replying to myself here. I just found myself shopping for a washer and dryer, and indeed, ran across one that takes manufacturer-branded detergent cartridges and offers to order more, right in the app, when they run low. It can use third-party detergent by manually adding it at the start of the cycle, but adding some _during_ the cycle (which ultimately uses less) is only supported if using their cartridge. I wish I was making this up.