4 ms·

Tangentially related: If you haven’t already, I‘d suggest to look at Radon. It‘s the #2 reason for lung cancer, and is very easy to measure and mitigate (automa

by manmal 2y ago

Tangentially related: If you haven’t already, I‘d suggest to look at Radon. It‘s the #2 reason for lung cancer, and is very easy to measure and mitigate (automatic ventilation). Many countries have Radon hazard maps.

perching_aix 2y ago
In the meantime I was recommended a spa day at a place with Radon gas because it's so good for me health wise supposedly. Irony through the roof.
- yababa_y 2y ago
  Well, if the exposure isn’t chronic, there might be a hormetic effect? Radiation dosage is the “classical” example of hormesis
- alnwlsn 2y ago
  Let's just hope they are lying. Where do you even get radon gas? The most stable isotope has a half life of just 3.8 days. Unless they mean they built on a place with unfortunate geology or have a large stockpile of radium around.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    There are caves and mines that have radon from natural sources. Why are people hanging out in Montana's radon-filled mines? https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2023-01-18/why-are-people-hanging-out-in-montanas-radon-filled-mines https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2023-01-18/why-are-people-...
    - defrost 2y ago
      Granite sided valleys fill every day with radon until wind clears it out. Certainly not as dense as basements and caves but worth pointing out that radon is a constant ongoing decay product of natural uranium in rock.
adrianN 2y ago
I wonder how they figured out that radon causes that cancer and not, say tire particles.
- manmal 2y ago
  The radon-cancer link has been suspected and studied since the mid 20th century, and been suspected in miners before the word cancer even existed.
- mppm 2y ago
  From what I can tell, they didn't. The theoretical basis for it is the Linear No-Threshold Model, which is, bluntly put, garbage. The empirical evidence seems to come mostly from so-called case-control studies, which are, bluntly put, garbage. You conduct a case-control study as follows: 1) Select some number of lung cancer patients and a control group without lung cancer. 2) Try to establish why the cancer patients got cancer and the non-cancer group didn't, by retroactively estimating their smoking habits, radon exposure (from radon maps or retroactive measurements of places they lived at), as well as other factors. 3) Use statistics to try to disentangle suspected radon cases from smoking (90%) and other stuff. 4) Pretend that all this is not totally biased, sampling or otherwise.
  - briHass 2y ago
    And have one of the highest impact studies conducted on coal miners (who all smoked.)
- defrost 2y ago
  I note the comment by mppm and accept that exact risk levels and associations are problematic while also noting medical students can and have demonstrated increased cancer and tumours in lab animals when exposed to radon. I once measured broad area environmental levels of background radiation as part of geophysical exploration, I'm not in the medical field (although I did some post grad epidemiology work as part of a mathematics degree). Medical papers of interest on radon include: Indoor radon was declared a human carcinogen in 1987 by the WHO and in 1988 by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). * WHO Handbook on Indoor Radon: A Public Health Perspective (2009) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23762967/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23762967/ * Radon and Lung Cancer: Current Trends and Future Perspectives (2022) - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9264880/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9264880/ ^^ Broad overview handbooks and trends ------------------- Example studies * Radon in homes and risk of lung cancer: collaborative analysis of individual data from 13 European case-control studies (2005) - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC546066/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC546066/ * A 10-year follow-up study of yearly indoor radon measurements in homes, review of other studies and implications on lung cancer risk estimates (2021) - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969720376816 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...
jchw 2y ago
I wound up grabbing a couple of AirThings sensors to see what my indoor air quality looks like. Those things can be a bit pricey, but they are easy to interface with locally and integrate into Home Assistant, providing you with measures for a few different properties. I found that the radon levels in my basement rarely breach 2 pCi/L, but can breach as high as 4 pCi/L very infrequently (i.e. once a year.) Not sure if there is really any point in being concerned about it, but it's interesting information nonetheless.
LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
Some countries have places with higher than normal natural background radiation, and thermal springs whose waters emit radon, and caves with some radon in their air. And people travel there, to bathe and bask in it, and feel refreshed afterwards. It's called 'Hormesis'.

by manmal 2y ago

perching_aix 2y ago

In the meantime I was recommended a spa day at a place with Radon gas because it's so good for me health wise supposedly. Irony through the roof.

yababa_y 2y ago
Well, if the exposure isn’t chronic, there might be a hormetic effect? Radiation dosage is the “classical” example of hormesis
alnwlsn 2y ago
Let's just hope they are lying. Where do you even get radon gas? The most stable isotope has a half life of just 3.8 days. Unless they mean they built on a place with unfortunate geology or have a large stockpile of radium around.
- jerlam 2y ago
  There are caves and mines that have radon from natural sources. Why are people hanging out in Montana's radon-filled mines? https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2023-01-18/why-are-people-hanging-out-in-montanas-radon-filled-mines https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2023-01-18/why-are-people-...
  - defrost 2y ago
    Granite sided valleys fill every day with radon until wind clears it out. Certainly not as dense as basements and caves but worth pointing out that radon is a constant ongoing decay product of natural uranium in rock.

adrianN 2y ago

I wonder how they figured out that radon causes that cancer and not, say tire particles.

manmal 2y ago
The radon-cancer link has been suspected and studied since the mid 20th century, and been suspected in miners before the word cancer even existed.
mppm 2y ago
From what I can tell, they didn't. The theoretical basis for it is the Linear No-Threshold Model, which is, bluntly put, garbage. The empirical evidence seems to come mostly from so-called case-control studies, which are, bluntly put, garbage. You conduct a case-control study as follows: 1) Select some number of lung cancer patients and a control group without lung cancer. 2) Try to establish why the cancer patients got cancer and the non-cancer group didn't, by retroactively estimating their smoking habits, radon exposure (from radon maps or retroactive measurements of places they lived at), as well as other factors. 3) Use statistics to try to disentangle suspected radon cases from smoking (90%) and other stuff. 4) Pretend that all this is not totally biased, sampling or otherwise.
- briHass 2y ago
  And have one of the highest impact studies conducted on coal miners (who all smoked.)
defrost 2y ago
I note the comment by mppm and accept that exact risk levels and associations are problematic while also noting medical students can and have demonstrated increased cancer and tumours in lab animals when exposed to radon. I once measured broad area environmental levels of background radiation as part of geophysical exploration, I'm not in the medical field (although I did some post grad epidemiology work as part of a mathematics degree). Medical papers of interest on radon include: Indoor radon was declared a human carcinogen in 1987 by the WHO and in 1988 by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). * WHO Handbook on Indoor Radon: A Public Health Perspective (2009) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23762967/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23762967/ * Radon and Lung Cancer: Current Trends and Future Perspectives (2022) - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9264880/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9264880/ ^^ Broad overview handbooks and trends ------------------- Example studies * Radon in homes and risk of lung cancer: collaborative analysis of individual data from 13 European case-control studies (2005) - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC546066/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC546066/ * A 10-year follow-up study of yearly indoor radon measurements in homes, review of other studies and implications on lung cancer risk estimates (2021) - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969720376816 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...

jchw 2y ago

I wound up grabbing a couple of AirThings sensors to see what my indoor air quality looks like. Those things can be a bit pricey, but they are easy to interface with locally and integrate into Home Assistant, providing you with measures for a few different properties. I found that the radon levels in my basement rarely breach 2 pCi/L, but can breach as high as 4 pCi/L very infrequently (i.e. once a year.) Not sure if there is really any point in being concerned about it, but it's interesting information nonetheless.

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago

Some countries have places with higher than normal natural background radiation, and thermal springs whose waters emit radon, and caves with some radon in their air. And people travel there, to bathe and bask in it, and feel refreshed afterwards. It's called 'Hormesis'.