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What about users who sign up for these insecure apps and have their data and possibly their identity stolen due to the misplaced trust? That this already happen

What about users who sign up for these insecure apps and have their data and possibly their identity stolen due to the misplaced trust? That this already happens is no excuse to encourage even less security by encouraging novices to believe they are experts. I agree it is great that more people can build software, but let's not pretend there are zero downsides.

_zoltan_ 1y ago
[flagged]
sebastiennight 1y ago
My feeling is that this is similar to saying, "non-professional AirBnB hosts are a terrible security nightmare, and the fact that people are not much safer in regulated hotels is no excuse to encourage even less security by encouraging novices to play in the hospitality business". I agree with you on the downsides.
- namaria 1y ago
  AirBnB externality is not the safety risk for guests (although I personally ended up in some sketchy situations years ago, I don't use it anymore, mainly because:) the real externality is imposed on the inhabitants of popular tourist destinations. There was a reason the industry was regulated, and circumventing these reasons with an app has been a net negative to society.
conductr 1y ago
This is a contrived situation. Most of the apps in discussion see little to no use and go dead soon after launch. The vast majority are collecting little data of negligible risk. If a user is confident enough about a no name company that they give them enough info to make identity theft a possibility, it was only a matter of time before a spammer/phishing attack gets them anyway
- Capricorn2481 1y ago
  > Most of the apps in discussion see little to no use and go dead soon after launch That's not convincing. Of the apps that do get used, the vibe-coded ones will likely be unsafe. > If a user is confident enough about a no name company that they give them enough info to make identity theft a possibility That's completely unrelated. You can give a company very little information. Any of it being leaked is unacceptable. You can find a lot from an email, or a phone number. People are taught, by CNBC, by suits, by hacks, that you can trust the apps on your commercials and it will be fine. It likely won't be, and your response is exactly why. Many of you are apathetic to the idea of doing right by people. So people are manipulated, and some of them are elderly and don't even understand how computers work. This is reason enough to care about what they are exposed to, not say "let's burn it all down with shitty vibe-coding because users are dumb anyway." We're supposed to be better than this.
  - conductr 1y ago
    > Of the apps that do get used, the vibe-coded ones will likely be unsafe. What's the threat though. As in, what's at risk. A leaked email address? Probably. Enough info to have your identity stolen as prior commenter had mentioned. Probably not. > That's completely unrelated. Umm, no, it's related due to the prior commenter claiming that was the risk in their contrived situation from prior post mentioning identity theft. > Any of it being leaked is unacceptable. You can find a lot from an email, or a phone number. Everyone's email has already been leaked somewhere. It's not private data. This is like saying your bank account number is confidential financial information and ignoring the fact it's printed on every check you write. > Many of you are apathetic to the idea of doing right by people. > We're supposed to be better than this. I object by simply saying I'm just being realistic. Data leaks somewhere, everywhere, sometimes, always. You're choosing to live in a fantasy land where this doesn't happen as if it wasn't the very true state of the world long before vibe coding came along. Sure, it's not my ideal state. But it is the actual state of things. Get real.
    - somebehemoth 1y ago
      Vibe coded apps are by definition less secure. The more vibe coded apps, the more risk to users' data. Nothing you've said changes these facts. That you think vibe coded apps may not collect PII, or that all PII has already been leaked is not at all realistic.

_zoltan_ 1y ago

[flagged]

sebastiennight 1y ago

My feeling is that this is similar to saying, "non-professional AirBnB hosts are a terrible security nightmare, and the fact that people are not much safer in regulated hotels is no excuse to encourage even less security by encouraging novices to play in the hospitality business". I agree with you on the downsides.

namaria 1y ago
AirBnB externality is not the safety risk for guests (although I personally ended up in some sketchy situations years ago, I don't use it anymore, mainly because:) the real externality is imposed on the inhabitants of popular tourist destinations. There was a reason the industry was regulated, and circumventing these reasons with an app has been a net negative to society.

conductr 1y ago

This is a contrived situation. Most of the apps in discussion see little to no use and go dead soon after launch. The vast majority are collecting little data of negligible risk. If a user is confident enough about a no name company that they give them enough info to make identity theft a possibility, it was only a matter of time before a spammer/phishing attack gets them anyway

Capricorn2481 1y ago
> Most of the apps in discussion see little to no use and go dead soon after launch That's not convincing. Of the apps that do get used, the vibe-coded ones will likely be unsafe. > If a user is confident enough about a no name company that they give them enough info to make identity theft a possibility That's completely unrelated. You can give a company very little information. Any of it being leaked is unacceptable. You can find a lot from an email, or a phone number. People are taught, by CNBC, by suits, by hacks, that you can trust the apps on your commercials and it will be fine. It likely won't be, and your response is exactly why. Many of you are apathetic to the idea of doing right by people. So people are manipulated, and some of them are elderly and don't even understand how computers work. This is reason enough to care about what they are exposed to, not say "let's burn it all down with shitty vibe-coding because users are dumb anyway." We're supposed to be better than this.
- conductr 1y ago
  > Of the apps that do get used, the vibe-coded ones will likely be unsafe. What's the threat though. As in, what's at risk. A leaked email address? Probably. Enough info to have your identity stolen as prior commenter had mentioned. Probably not. > That's completely unrelated. Umm, no, it's related due to the prior commenter claiming that was the risk in their contrived situation from prior post mentioning identity theft. > Any of it being leaked is unacceptable. You can find a lot from an email, or a phone number. Everyone's email has already been leaked somewhere. It's not private data. This is like saying your bank account number is confidential financial information and ignoring the fact it's printed on every check you write. > Many of you are apathetic to the idea of doing right by people. > We're supposed to be better than this. I object by simply saying I'm just being realistic. Data leaks somewhere, everywhere, sometimes, always. You're choosing to live in a fantasy land where this doesn't happen as if it wasn't the very true state of the world long before vibe coding came along. Sure, it's not my ideal state. But it is the actual state of things. Get real.
  - somebehemoth 1y ago
    Vibe coded apps are by definition less secure. The more vibe coded apps, the more risk to users' data. Nothing you've said changes these facts. That you think vibe coded apps may not collect PII, or that all PII has already been leaked is not at all realistic.