3 ms·

AFAICT, the W3C produces 2 types of standards: - standards they write themselves that everyone ignores - standards they copy from the WHATWG

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wizzwizz4 2y ago
Which is ActivityPub?
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  If that's your best example of a well used w3c native standard, thanks for helping me prove my point.
- immibis 2y ago
  An incompatible attempt at reformulating Mastodon Protocol. If you've ever actually tried to work with the protocol, you'll know the standard only loosely describes it. If you attempt to implement it by following the standard, you won't be compatible with anything else, because everything else implements Mastodon Protocol instead (and calls it ActivityPub).
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Touché. Mastodon is the Internet Explorer of ActivityPub. There are other, non-Mastodon extensions, and some ActivityPub-spec functionality that Mastodon eschews but other implementations support, but overall this is an accurate summary. Especially regarding the C2S protocol: most apps just use the Mastodon API instead (see https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/10520 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/10520).
robto 2y ago
I think the RDF standards have produced many useful tools for those that work with graph data. And the W3C is a useful coordination place for new standards like Verifiable Credentials[0] and Decentralized identifiers[1] and JSON Linked Data[2], which are all being used in ActivityPub, Bluesky, and a lot of other decentralizing projects. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verifiable_credentials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verifiable_credentials [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON-LD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON-LD
rhdunn 2y ago
The CSS and specs are maintained by W3C and are widely implemented by browsers. Likewise for the WAI-ARIA, WCAG, MathML, and SVG specs. The XML and related specs are implemented by various applications and libraries even if web browsers dislike these specs. -- They are used a lot in document publishing workflows that use formats like JATS, and are supported by various tools and libraries. SVG is widely supported in vector graphics applications and rendering tools. And WHATWG hasn't just co-opted W3C specs -- it's also co-opted encoding, URIs and others from places like the RFCs.
magicalist 2y ago
> standards they write themselves that everyone ignores CSS, WAI-ARIA, SVG, WebGPU, WebAuthn...and a large number of APIs that are referenced as part of the HTML spec but developed and standardized by different W3C groups. > standards they copy from the WHATWG Not for six years now: https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/w3c-and-whatwg-to-work-together-to-advance-the-open-web-platform/ https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/w3c-and-whatwg-to-work-together... Lots of hn people need to update their priors about modern web standardization work.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

wizzwizz4 2y ago

Which is ActivityPub?

bryanlarsen 2y ago
If that's your best example of a well used w3c native standard, thanks for helping me prove my point.
immibis 2y ago
An incompatible attempt at reformulating Mastodon Protocol. If you've ever actually tried to work with the protocol, you'll know the standard only loosely describes it. If you attempt to implement it by following the standard, you won't be compatible with anything else, because everything else implements Mastodon Protocol instead (and calls it ActivityPub).
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Touché. Mastodon is the Internet Explorer of ActivityPub. There are other, non-Mastodon extensions, and some ActivityPub-spec functionality that Mastodon eschews but other implementations support, but overall this is an accurate summary. Especially regarding the C2S protocol: most apps just use the Mastodon API instead (see https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/10520 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/10520).

robto 2y ago

I think the RDF standards have produced many useful tools for those that work with graph data. And the W3C is a useful coordination place for new standards like Verifiable Credentials[0] and Decentralized identifiers[1] and JSON Linked Data[2], which are all being used in ActivityPub, Bluesky, and a lot of other decentralizing projects. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verifiable_credentials https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verifiable_credentials [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_identifier [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON-LD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON-LD

rhdunn 2y ago

The CSS and specs are maintained by W3C and are widely implemented by browsers. Likewise for the WAI-ARIA, WCAG, MathML, and SVG specs. The XML and related specs are implemented by various applications and libraries even if web browsers dislike these specs. -- They are used a lot in document publishing workflows that use formats like JATS, and are supported by various tools and libraries. SVG is widely supported in vector graphics applications and rendering tools. And WHATWG hasn't just co-opted W3C specs -- it's also co-opted encoding, URIs and others from places like the RFCs.

magicalist 2y ago

> standards they write themselves that everyone ignores CSS, WAI-ARIA, SVG, WebGPU, WebAuthn...and a large number of APIs that are referenced as part of the HTML spec but developed and standardized by different W3C groups. > standards they copy from the WHATWG Not for six years now: https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/w3c-and-whatwg-to-work-together-to-advance-the-open-web-platform/ https://www.w3.org/blog/2019/w3c-and-whatwg-to-work-together... Lots of hn people need to update their priors about modern web standardization work.