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> the government can now disappear people to a gulag in El Salvador with no due process To be wafer-thin fair to Trump et al, that was started by Bush with Gua

> the government can now disappear people to a gulag in El Salvador with no due process To be wafer-thin fair to Trump et al, that was started by Bush with Guantanamo.

DrillShopper 2y ago
On the gripping hand, just because Bush, our greatest war criminal (derogatory), did something doesn't mean that Trump should. If anything, he should have learned why it's a bad idea.
- int_19h 2y ago
  The point is that what we're witnessing is the logical end result of the preceding decades of giving the federal executive more and more unchecked power (it didn't start with Bush, either). Trump is indeed uniquely bad in many ways, but the reason why he can do so much damage is because he was given access to the tools accumulated by previous presidential administrations. I hope that we'll learn our lesson once this is over. But I'm also skeptical.
potato3732842 2y ago
It's almost like all those people who said the federal government's post 9/11 power grabs set a bad precedent and moved us incrementally further down various slippery slopes were right.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
pjc50 2y ago
This is true, important, and it's also important to recognize how long it was left open by both sides. "Imperial rebound" is very real. If you create a special extra-legal space which allows you to abuse people, it will expand.
sanderjd 2y ago
Which is exactly why a lot of us thought that was a really bad idea at the time.
Muromec 2y ago
First they came for enemy combatants, called them terrorists, shipped them to a torture prison abroad, stripped of all rights and still keep some there despite not having them convicted. But I'm not an enemy combatant, so I didn't care. Then they care for immigrants, called them enemy aliens, shipped them to a torture prison, stripped them of all rights despite not having anybody convicted, but I'm not an immigrant, so I don't care. <--- you are here right now -->
ineedasername 2y ago
It seems they’ve learned their lessons on Guantanamo: That was too much hassle with the legal battles so now they just cut them loose with a shoulder shrug and a “no jurisdiction” fig leaf.

> the government can now disappear people to a gulag in El Salvador with no due process To be wafer-thin fair to Trump et al, that was started by Bush with Guantanamo.

DrillShopper 2y ago

On the gripping hand, just because Bush, our greatest war criminal (derogatory), did something doesn't mean that Trump should. If anything, he should have learned why it's a bad idea.

int_19h 2y ago
The point is that what we're witnessing is the logical end result of the preceding decades of giving the federal executive more and more unchecked power (it didn't start with Bush, either). Trump is indeed uniquely bad in many ways, but the reason why he can do so much damage is because he was given access to the tools accumulated by previous presidential administrations. I hope that we'll learn our lesson once this is over. But I'm also skeptical.

potato3732842 2y ago

It's almost like all those people who said the federal government's post 9/11 power grabs set a bad precedent and moved us incrementally further down various slippery slopes were right.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pjc50 2y ago

This is true, important, and it's also important to recognize how long it was left open by both sides. "Imperial rebound" is very real. If you create a special extra-legal space which allows you to abuse people, it will expand.

sanderjd 2y ago

Which is exactly why a lot of us thought that was a really bad idea at the time.

Muromec 2y ago

First they came for enemy combatants, called them terrorists, shipped them to a torture prison abroad, stripped of all rights and still keep some there despite not having them convicted. But I'm not an enemy combatant, so I didn't care. Then they care for immigrants, called them enemy aliens, shipped them to a torture prison, stripped them of all rights despite not having anybody convicted, but I'm not an immigrant, so I don't care. <--- you are here right now -->

ineedasername 2y ago

It seems they’ve learned their lessons on Guantanamo: That was too much hassle with the legal battles so now they just cut them loose with a shoulder shrug and a “no jurisdiction” fig leaf.