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Hell no. A country in which the Citizens United decision is in effect is extremely less democratic than a country without such a corrupting influence in play.

Hell no. A country in which the Citizens United decision is in effect is extremely less democratic than a country without such a corrupting influence in play. "Now I think about it..." work on that some more going forward. The country is complicated and Democracy has grades. We're getting an F at the moment.

bilbo0s 1y ago
Sigh. There are democratic procedures by which the people can go about changing citizens United. You apparently believe those procedures are not part of democracy, but they are. That the people won’t take the decision, and implement the process to change citizens united, is the fault of the people, not of the democracy. Democracy simply provides the procedures. You make the decisions. For instance, a lot of right wing people spent a lot of time stacking the court to do away with roe v wade. Democracy provided that possibility through procedures it put in place. That’s only one way to do away with citizens united. There are others. None of which you choose to avail yourself of. How is that the democracy’s fault?
- aaronbaugher 1y ago
  When many people use the word "democracy" today, they're not referring to a system of government where laws reflect the will of the people as determined by votes. They're talking about Democracy, a civic religion where the rules match their own personal beliefs and the current-year beliefs of their class. So in a Democracy, if the people vote for something different, that's anti-Democratic, and non-democratic methods may be required to fix Democracy.
  - nullstyle 1y ago
    Perhaps you'd like to put some more words in my mouth. When I say Democracy, I mean a form of government in which political power is primarily seated within the common mass of people, as opposed to political power being with those who bribe, cheat, scheme, lie and bribe some more to achieve more political power than their fellow citizen. This tension puts democracy on a gradient, one which I believe is currently and firmly seated in corporate command of political power. I recommend you go read Democracy Incorporated to add a little more clarity and contrast to your world view.
- nullstyle 1y ago
  If you think the way Roe v. Wade was killed reflects democracy in action, I don't think we will ever see eye to eye. "Democracy provided that possibility," no Democracy as we implement it failed to resist the authoritarian attack built on broken oaths. Did you and I watch the same confirmation hearings? That wasn't democracy. Next I suspect you'll try to tell me the Brooks Brothers riot was also "democratic procedures." > None of which you choose to avail yourself of. Oh piss off.
- int_19h 1y ago
  Consider gerrymandering. It literally makes some votes count for less than others. Yet the only recourse is the courts, and if the courts are stacked, it means that minority elected by padding their votes in this manner can retain control despite will of the majority.

bilbo0s 1y ago

Sigh. There are democratic procedures by which the people can go about changing citizens United. You apparently believe those procedures are not part of democracy, but they are. That the people won’t take the decision, and implement the process to change citizens united, is the fault of the people, not of the democracy. Democracy simply provides the procedures. You make the decisions. For instance, a lot of right wing people spent a lot of time stacking the court to do away with roe v wade. Democracy provided that possibility through procedures it put in place. That’s only one way to do away with citizens united. There are others. None of which you choose to avail yourself of. How is that the democracy’s fault?

aaronbaugher 1y ago
When many people use the word "democracy" today, they're not referring to a system of government where laws reflect the will of the people as determined by votes. They're talking about Democracy, a civic religion where the rules match their own personal beliefs and the current-year beliefs of their class. So in a Democracy, if the people vote for something different, that's anti-Democratic, and non-democratic methods may be required to fix Democracy.
- nullstyle 1y ago
  Perhaps you'd like to put some more words in my mouth. When I say Democracy, I mean a form of government in which political power is primarily seated within the common mass of people, as opposed to political power being with those who bribe, cheat, scheme, lie and bribe some more to achieve more political power than their fellow citizen. This tension puts democracy on a gradient, one which I believe is currently and firmly seated in corporate command of political power. I recommend you go read Democracy Incorporated to add a little more clarity and contrast to your world view.
nullstyle 1y ago
If you think the way Roe v. Wade was killed reflects democracy in action, I don't think we will ever see eye to eye. "Democracy provided that possibility," no Democracy as we implement it failed to resist the authoritarian attack built on broken oaths. Did you and I watch the same confirmation hearings? That wasn't democracy. Next I suspect you'll try to tell me the Brooks Brothers riot was also "democratic procedures." > None of which you choose to avail yourself of. Oh piss off.
int_19h 1y ago
Consider gerrymandering. It literally makes some votes count for less than others. Yet the only recourse is the courts, and if the courts are stacked, it means that minority elected by padding their votes in this manner can retain control despite will of the majority.